Talk:Bible basher

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WTF? This is a definition for bible thumper - an antonym of bible basher!

  1. Travelling preacher who calls on homes to promote religious beliefs.
  2. Person who frequently quotes from the Bible.

--Connel MacKenzie 14:46, 26 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Wrong. There is considerable use of the term as a supporter of the bible being called a bible basher, particularly those who call to homes. It might be a regional thing. --Dmol 15:16, 26 Jan 2005 (UTC)Dmol.

Dmol, could you please explain? What regions? What considerable use? Could you cite me some sources please? (I'd be more than satisfied with one.) --Connel MacKenzie 18:20, 26 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Quotes as requested.

1. From Sex God to Doorstep Bible Basher

   Rick Ross website headline.

2. Science and education are under threat from the bible-bashing right in the US...

   Skepdic.com website news article.

3. Bible-basher, noun Definitions: U.K. ( slang ) Same as Bible-thumper, which in turn defines it as, "vehement promoter of Christianity"

   encarta MSN website.

4. bible basher's slang, a group of slang words that relate to Christianity and the bible

   www.urbandictionary.com

5. Bible-basher (British & Australian, informal, mainly American, informal) an insulting way of describing someone who tries very hard to persuade other people to believe in Christianity

   http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/Bible-basher

I was unable to find one that suggested the term means lambasting the bible, but the comment was mentioned ( and quickly rebutted ) at http://www.collins.co.uk/wordexchange/Forums/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=13778

--Dmol 22:34, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

This one has been back and forwards for over a year. As mentioned in my notes at the time, I could not find any use of the term to indicate someone opposed to the bible, rather than its common meaning of a pro-religious person. (Actually, the original def was a person calling to homes to promote religion). The UK / US thing does not work either. Of the 5 examples listed in the talk page, numbers 1, 2, and 5 are US examples of a pro-religious use. Only number 3 is specifically UK. Ironically, you are now using the arguement I suggested at the time, namely that it varies by region. Cites for an anti-religious use are required. --Dmol 21:38, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Which "you" are you referring to? I'd say this has been lost/under the radar for over a year. --Connel MacKenzie 02:38, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

Being from the US, I've only heard the second def., the one for which verification is requested. DAVilla 15:09, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

But the following quotes show the term used in a pro-religious sense in the USA.

1. From Sex God to Doorstep Bible Basher

   (Cult expert) Rick Ross website headline.

2. Science and education are under threat from the bible-bashing right in the US...

   Skepdic.com website news article.

3. Bible-basher (British & Australian, informal, mainly American, informal) an insulting way of describing someone who tries very hard to persuade other people to believe in Christianity

   http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/Bible-basher

Still waiting for any cite (from any place) showing it means a person criticising the bible. It might exist, and it won't negate the other usage, but examples are needed.--Dmol 11:02, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

FWIW, I think the idiomatic sense is generally always "pro-Bible", whereas the non-idiomatic sense (one who bashes, i.e. harshly criticizes, the Bible) is always "anti-Bible". Here are some quotes of the "anti" sense; it's a judgment call as to whether they are functioning as a unit (but at least some are hyphenated, so I guess that argues for them being a unit.) Note that the idiomatic "pro-Bible" sense far outweighs this sense.Jeffqyzt 20:53, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

• 2002: Everett Hickey, Biblical in alt.astronomy [1]

  I'm no bible-basher looking to discredit everything I hear, but there is one point that might be interesting to argue...If the bible is the Word of God, which version or language is the official Word, as the meanings change subtley from one to another?

• 2003: Jeff Shirton, Conference... in alt.religion.mormon [2]

  There *are* no "Biblical contradictions". Years ago, I...addressed many, many, many alleged "contradictions". It's a very sad state of affairs, most Bible bashers who claim "contradictions" prefer quantity over quality, and no matter how many *ridiculous* claims they came up with and I demolished, they would continue with others...

• 2006: veralein, How to protect yourself against false Christian teachers in alt.christnet.christianlife [3]

  I think you are just a Bible basher for what reasons ever. Maybe you are just an atheist who has pleasure in trolling Christians and recruiting them.

I put this question on a newsgroup I use to see what comments were made. Some interesting points I noticed...
The disputed sense, (criticising the bible) seems to be only used in the USA, but NOT at the expense of the other meaning, ie, a preacher or religious zealot. The term apparently has both meanings, although I strongly suggest that the preacher/zealot meaning is more common. (It was certainly easier to find examples). One interesting thing I noticed is that among people who had not heard the term, most assumed it meant criticising the bible.
Other things noted, in the UK and Australia it only seems to mean preaching or being keen on religion.
Another one someone mentioned was the term Bible bashing to mean studying the Bible or being in a religious class at school. I have a vague memory of these classes in Australia, (too long ago) In fairness, the disputed sense should be kept, but perhaps a usage note added pointing out these items.
See the full discussion at...
http://msgboard.snopes.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?/ubb/get_topic/f/2/t/006063/p/1.html#000024
--Dmol 19:09, 7 September 2006 (UTC) Fascinating stuff. I have put the quotes on the article page and a usage note saying that the anti sense is chiefly US usage. 03:23, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Locations of various uses.

This is getting rediculous. I removed the UK part of def 1 because it is not restricted to the UK. It is use in Australia, it is used in Ireland, and IT IS USED IN THE USA. Excuse the shouting, but how can I make that more clear. I have already provided three good examples of US usage. There is not a UK/US difference between these two meanings, despite your obvious insistance that there is. --Dmol 11:07, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

I agree this is getting ridiculous. Several things:

1. If you contest "UK" why'd you remove "pejorative"?
2. I didn't put "UK" there, I replaced it; you obviously have a strong POV about this for some reason, that I don't see as supported by your citations.
3. If this ever was a valid meaning in the US, it certainly spread, apparently still in use in the UK. But within the US it is archaic (at best.)
4. Please stop reducing talk page section. That template doesn't seem to like section heading within it.

--Connel MacKenzie 11:18, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

This went through RFV just for you Dmol. The citations given clearly show the given meaning. Stop sneaking in your little reverts, just because the RFV didn't go your way. I just don't get it. The message board you linked above has several people commenting, but that apparently the atmosphere there is very hostile and refused to aknowledge the numerous complaints. I also don't understand on what basis you are contesting this very obvious meaning. You're not from the US nor the UK, right? What is it? --Connel MacKenzie 06:13, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

In England, where the term 'Bible basher' is used on a daily basis by many people including myself, it is usually taken to mean 'one who has sex with the Bible', as in 'one who loves the Bible'. Basically, it just means 'Christian' here. I presume that 'Bible thumper' is derived from 'Bible basher', what with 'thump' and 'bash' having somewhat related meanings, but with 'thump' lacking the sexual connotation, though this may not be the case. The idea that 'Bible basher' only refers to fundimentalists is certainly incorrect, but 'Bible thumper' does seem have this meaning in America, which possibly has caused the confusion.

• As an Usonian, I was confused when I played "Ben There, Dan That!" and encountered "Bible basher" used to mean the opposite of how I understood it. My sense was that "X bashers" were anti-X, like "gay bashers". While I personally haven't heard anyone use it as synonymous with "bible thumper" on the east coast of the US, I see how it is understood that way in the UK and Australia. ~ Robin 11:59, 25 October 2011 (UTC)