«pih DUHNG kuhl»
This section has been removed because it uses ad-hoc spelling rather than an established system such as IPA or an American dictionary system such as our misnamed "AHD". Specifically:
- What sound does "ih" represent? I'm guessing the sound in "pig" though the spelling of the entire word would lead the reader to expect the sound in "peg".
- What sound does "uh" represent in the middle syllable? I'm guessing the sound in "dung".
- What sound does "uh" represent in the last syllable? I'm guessing the sound in "the". Many dictionaries will even indicate a syllabic "l" here with no vowel at all.
- Why is the spelling "uh" used to represent two different sounds?
- MSN Encarta online gives two pronunciations in their propietary system (which requires a special font). I might represent it in an ad-hoc way as "PEE dunkle" and "pi DUNKle". This dictionary indeed does not indicate any vowel after "dung".
- AHD via Answers.com also gives the same two in a different system which in this instance does almost match our American dictionary system: pĭ-dŭng'kəl, pē'dŭng'kəl. This dictionary does choose to indicate a final vowel sound but specifically spells it differently to the middle "u" sound. In our slightly different system we would use: pĭ-dŭng'kəl, pē'dŭng"kəl (due to lack of Unicode symbols for American dictionary style primary and secondary stress marks). Note also that AHD has opposite preference to Encarta with regard to the two pronunciations.
- Merriam-Webster online uses another proprietary system, theirs being solely ASCII: 'pE-"d&[ng]-k&l, pi-'
- I'm not totally familiar with their system but I can see that they also give two pronunciations, the second abbreviated. The odd thing here for me is that they seem to indicate a schwa for both 2nd and 3rd syllables! When I listen to their recorded pronunciations the first "&" sounds like a short "u" as expected while the second sounds like a schwa. I don't like this system at all. I am pretty sure their print dictionaries use a much better system.
I can see that all three dictionaries offer the same two possibilities, just representing them differently:
- IPA: /pɪˈdʌŋk(ə)l/, American dictionary: pĭ-dŭng'k(ə)l
- IPA: /ˈpi:ˌdʌŋk(ə)l/, American dictionary: pē"dŭng'k(ə)l
Notes: The schwa is bracketed to indicate it is optional. AHD and MW indicate it, Encarta does not. I've chosen this order since 2 out of 3 dictionaries prefer it. Only AHD chooses the other order.
I guess this sounds confusing but I'm hoping it helps some people. English pronunciation and its unambiguous representation is a lot trickier than we expect! — Hippietrail 17:38, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
IPA vs Unicode
I just reverted Primtime's change from the IPA template to the Unicode template to get the IPA in the pronunciation section to display. The reason I did this is because it's the wrong fix. There is definitely something wront with the IPA template lately and that needs to be fixed. Using the Unicode template is only a bandaid solution which will obscure the real problem. — Hippietrail 16:33, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
- Well, Who should be contacted to correct it? The reason I ask is that no one seemed to know in the Beer Parlour, and I doubt the problem will garner much attention here. --Primetime 16:53, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
- I just fiddled with it and now it works for me but while my fix addressed the broken template I think it was still not the perfect fix. You will have to do a CONTROL+F5 on the page to get the new template to work in your browser. Let us know the results. — Hippietrail 16:58, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
- Your new repair to the IPA template worked great even before pressing CTRL+F5. Good job. --Primetime 17:06, 19 January 2006 (UTC)