Talk:trut

RFV discussion: October–November 2018

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trut

Rfv-sense:

1. (derogatory, euphemistic) bitch (pejorative term for a despicable or disagreeable, aggressive woman.)
2. (derogatory) boring, narrow-minded or slow person.
3. (formal) An interjection of contempt.
4. (slang) 4/5 truth, mutable concoction of facts employed for an ulterior purpose.

I deleted senses 3 and 4, but readded them just so we can go through the process of verifying them. I also want to verify senses 1 and 2 because they were added by an anon and I can't seem to find sources supporting them. --Robbie SWE (talk) 19:28, 8 October 2018 (UTC)

According to The Century Dictionary and Cyclopedia, the word in sense 3 is inherited from Middle English, which borrowed it from Old French, so it has a different etymology than senses 1 and 2. I think it may be dated. Sense 4 is a stupid joke and should be deleted.  --Lambiam 20:34, 8 October 2018 (UTC)

I could not find the word in several Middle English dictionaries; The Century Dictionary and Cyclopedia gives Promptorium parvulorum as the authority.  --Lambiam 21:17, 8 October 2018 (UTC)

The MED has it as an alternative form of 7 different terms[1]. DCDuring (talk) 22:53, 8 October 2018 (UTC)

Not all 7 seem to actually have trut as an actual alternative form. DCDuring (talk) 22:58, 8 October 2018 (UTC)

The relevant one for the exclamation is prūt. The variety of forms makes me think this is imitative, like tut tut/tsk tsk.  --Lambiam 01:21, 9 October 2018 (UTC)

Senses 1 and 2 do not belong in English and should be deleted. — This unsigned comment was added by 146.129.178.229 (talk).

+1 for the previous comment - Nobody is using senses 1 and 2, that's ridiculous. Sense 4 is a joke, should be removed too. Regarding sense 3, I can't tell if that's correct. For some reason TRUT gives me the sense of "bold and fast change, bold appearance or disappearance", but that's just my gut feeling. — This unsigned comment was added by 75.172.46.68 (talk).

The fact that you have never encountered the term in senses 1 or 2 does not suffice to establish that nobody uses these senses. There is nothing ridiculous per se in the idea of people using this, any more than their using boor or bumpkin.  --Lambiam 11:36, 12 October 2018 (UTC)

I think what is ridiculous is the strong desire to import as many derogatory words as we can, from as many languages possible, and promote society regress by providing a strong arsenal to hurt people. We all have a responsibility to be human ambassadors, so I vote to remove sense 1 and 2. There is no record of this word being adopted in that sense, what keeps us from removing it?

It's not a vote, and this thread exists to find evidence for the use; if none is found, it will be removed. Equinox ◑ 05:29, 24 October 2018 (UTC)

RFV-failed Kiwima (talk) 04:17, 28 November 2018 (UTC)

German Trottel related ?

idiot, fool, boob, etc

Of Austrian origin. The exact etymology is unknown but presumed to derive from trotteln (saunter, ramble, walk without a specific destination). Flāvidus (talk) 14:49, 9 April 2023 (UTC)