Talk:in the process of

RFD discussion: March–April 2016

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in the process of

Supposedly a verb. Well, to "be in the process of" would certainly be a verb. Maybe it should be moved there. If kept / moved, it needs proper formatting and cleaning up. SemperBlotto (talk) 20:34, 24 March 2016 (UTC)

p.s. in the process seems a valid adverb. (I tried correcting it, but messed it up "in the process"). SemperBlotto (talk) 20:38, 24 March 2016 (UTC)

Keep as a preposition. You can just make be in the process of a redirection. --Romanophile ♞ (contributions) 20:36, 24 March 2016 (UTC)

Okay, I decided to fix up the entry. Perhaps it could be a redirection to in the process, but in any case, I’d rather we not delete this. --Romanophile ♞ (contributions) 20:43, 24 March 2016 (UTC)

I took the liberty of making further changes. I have defined it as "(often followed by the -ing form of a verb) Engaged in, but not finished with." DCDuring TALK 21:28, 24 March 2016 (UTC)

It's definitely a preposition with an equivalent adverb in the process. However, I'm not sure whether these are SOP or not. --WikiTiki89 21:52, 24 March 2016 (UTC)

One OneLook dictionary includes in the process of doing something, but without providing a PoS. That definition doesn't make clear that it covers an expression like "in the process of installation."

Does this MWOnline sense of process cover this: "a series of actions or operations conducing to an end"? How about our inaccurately and confusingly worded equivalent "A series of events which produce a result, especially as contrasted to product"? (events causing results? and what is unambiguously being contrasted to "product" (uncountable)? "a result" (countable)? or something earlier in the def?) DCDuring TALK 22:58, 24 March 2016 (UTC)

I think this is an English idiom or phrase; we don't say this in Czech. It probably appears sum of parts to native speakers, but I have learned it as a lexical unit, as as sort of explication of present continuative tense, or whatever it is called. idioms.thefreedictionary.com[1] has it. I am not even sure how to translate this into Czech. Whether this should be lemmatized as in the process of or in the process seems relatively unimportant; I know that the thing I have to insert into a sentence is "in the process of". --Dan Polansky (talk) 19:50, 27 March 2016 (UTC)

@Dan Polansky: if you were translating German into Czech, how would you say "Ich bin dabei, es zu tun"? That's the best German translation I can think of for "I'm in the process of doing it". —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 20:06, 27 March 2016 (UTC)

I guess "právě to dělám" or "právě na tom dělám". But Google translate translates "Ich bin dabei, es zu tun" as "Jdu na to" which would be "I am about to do it", meaning I have not started yet; indeed, the English translation by Google is "I'm going to do it". Therefore, I am not sure whether "Ich bin dabei, es zu tun" really means "I am doing it right now". German "Ich mache es gerade" could be better. --Dan Polansky (talk) 20:21, 27 March 2016 (UTC)

The more I think about it, I guess "Ich bin dabei, es zu tun" is ambiguous. It can mean either "I'm about to do it" or "I'm in the process of doing it". Adding "gerade" helps disambiguate: "Ich bin gerade dabei, es zu tun." Of course there are lots of other ways of expressing this in English, e.g. "I'm doing it as we speak". —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 06:52, 28 March 2016 (UTC)

Re "I am not even sure how to translate this into Czech" - in fact I think I simply wouldn't translate it at all. Consider the entry's two example sentences: if I translate them into Czech and then back into English I get I found him in the process of completing that article about periscopes. -> Našel jsem ho, jak dokončuje ten článek o periskopech. -> I found him completing that article about periscopes. and It is still in the process of installation. -> Pořád se to ještě instaluje. -> It is still being installed. Consequently, keep per Angr ("as idiomatic as en train de"). --Droigheann (talk) 21:48, 27 March 2016 (UTC)

Hah, that was my first thought: If I just omit the phrase from the translation, I don't really lose anything. --Dan Polansky (talk) 21:53, 27 March 2016 (UTC)

Unless one needs to emphasize the on-going, current nature of an action, this phrase is pretty useless. It's the kind of meaningless filler used to mark one's speech as more official or important than it is. Chuck Entz (talk) 23:56, 27 March 2016 (UTC)

I added a more accurate translation, although "I'm working on it", which is similar is: "Ich arbeite dran". Tojam2 (talk) 18:12, 29 March 2016 (UTC)

Keep but fix so it doesn't claim "in the process of" is a verb. It isn't; it's a preposition. But don't delete it; it's as idiomatic as en train de. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 20:06, 27 March 2016 (UTC)

Keep, but fix per above. Andrew Sheedy (talk) 00:53, 28 March 2016 (UTC)

• Keep: 5
• Delete: 0

Intuitively I find this sum of parts, but when I try and replace 'process' with a different noun it doesn't work. Renard Migrant (talk) 22:21, 29 March 2016 (UTC)

in the middle of is synonymous, but I don't think process and middle have uses that have synonymous senses.

Keep. DCDuring TALK 23:09, 29 March 2016 (UTC)

I'm skeptical about the Used other than as an idiom: see in,‎ process,‎ of sense. I think all usage is idiomatic. Renard Migrant (talk) 11:50, 30 March 2016 (UTC)

In the determiner-free technical writings of non-native speakers, such use is abundant (21st century publications, preview available). There is also use that does not fit the definition ("engaged in ....") but rather another definition ("undergoing ....") which applies to inanimates. There is other use in philosophy, theology, etc, which doesn't seem to fit the idiom. And there is use for which the definition is not substitutable because the result would lead to double occurrence of "engaged in" or "undergoing". I'd never bet against literal combinations, even for kick the bucket. DCDuring TALK 12:29, 30 March 2016 (UTC)

Google News shows that kick the bucket down the road alternates with kick the can down the road ("postpone addressing a problem in hope or knowledge that won't then be responsible for its resolution"). DCDuring TALK 12:38, 30 March 2016 (UTC)

I'd say this chat is dead, permission to remove the rfd? Tojam2 (talk) 19:53, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

• RFD kept per consensus. 17 days elapsed from the nomination; no chance this would get deleted. --Dan Polansky (talk) 07:56, 10 April 2016 (UTC)