Talk:joyant

Eye dialect

@Angr Why isn't this eye dialect? DTLHS (talk) 17:19, 26 July 2016 (UTC)

Eye dialect is when it's a nonstandard spelling reflecting a standard pronunciation (like sez for says, since sez represents the standard pronunciation of says). But this spelling reflects a nonstandard pronunciation /ˈdʒɔɪənt/ (as opposed to standard /ˈdʒaɪənt/), so it's not eye dialect. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 17:22, 26 July 2016 (UTC)

RFV discussion: July 2016–May 2017

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joyant

Take a close look at joyant. There can be found numerous citations for it, but the most part of them seem to mean "giant". At least, one person, in the early 20th century, appears to have used it to mean joyous, but did she? — This unsigned comment was added by Mountebank1 (talk • contribs).

Your existing citations seem to me to clearly mean "joyous". I've added a noun sense using {{eye dialect of|giant}} with the citation you linked. DTLHS (talk) 00:16, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

Yeah, it seemed to me that way, as well. That's why I added it. I just wanted to see if other people would see it that way, too, I know, I just wanted to be one hundred percent sure. There are also other citations for joyant in the sense joyous out there . The only thing I am still a bit bothered by is the following quotation from James Joyceː "Yet is it, this ale of man, for him, our hubuljoynted, just a tug and a fistful as for Culsen, the Patagoreyan, chieftain of chokanchuckers and his moyety joyant, under the foamer dispensation when he pullupped the turfeycork by the greats of gobble out of Lougk Neagk. When, pressures be to our hoary frother, the pop gave his sullen bulletaction and, bilge, sled a movement of catharic emulsipotion down the sloppery slide of a slaunty to tilted lift-ye-landsmen. Allamin. Which in the ambit of its orbit heaved a sink her sailer alongside of a drink her drainer from the basses brothers, those two theygottheres". What does he really mean by "moyety joyant"? Does he mean a "moiety joyant" or a "mighty giant"? Mountebank1 (talk) 01:22, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

It's Joyce, so I assume he meant both. DTLHS (talk) 01:26, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

It's a bit of a mess with both etymology merged into one. I would assume the joyous sense comes from Old French joiant. I'll see if the SOED has it and what it says. Renard Migrant (talk)

The Shorter Oxford English Dictionary has joyant under joyance as an adjective with this meaning, glossed as rare. Gives etymology as joy +‎ -ance but it probably isn't. Renard Migrant (talk) 16:50, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

Ugh, the etymology needs cleaning up. There is no point in mentioning the use of the word in Finnegans Wake there if it is unclear what sense Joyce intended. Either relocate the quotation under one of the senses, or on to the citation page. — SMUconlaw (talk) 18:34, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

All clean. Leasnam (talk) 18:58, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

Yay, thanks! — SMUconlaw (talk) 19:37, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

Pleasingly I've just looked at joyance and it lists Joycean as an anagram. Renard Migrant (talk) 19:31, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

*Thumbs up* — SMUconlaw (talk) 19:37, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

As far as Old French joiant goes, I honestly do not think that it had much to do with Myra Kelly (the first mention I could find is hers) coining the word joyant. No really, methinks she just took the noun joy and added a still-productive affix -ant to it to form an adjective. I mean, there is just too much of a gap in continuity of use for me to suppose that it was directly derived from joiant. Mountebank1 (talk) 02:35, 26 July 2016 (UTC)

• We shouldn't really be citing Finnegans Wake, at least not without great care. All the words in there are deliberate blendings which have multiple meanings, often in more than one language. The book is a high-level vocabulary game and by some standards cannot really be considered to be written in English. Ƿidsiþ 14:02, 26 July 2016 (UTC)

P.S. Just finished reading Finnegans Wake... and you know, ne'er ne was I the one to spunder to shed this and that into English and non-English, but hereon I mote agree... Finnegans Wake be something that wones in the realm of its own, a sort of limbo where it ne is fully Egnlish, and ne is it fully something else... — This unsigned comment was added by Mountebank1 (talk • contribs) at 15:04, 27 July 2016.

No need to quote Finnegans Wake. There are plenty of other quotes. I have filled in the requisite number for each of the two meanings. This is RFV-passed. Kiwima (talk) 22:35, 3 May 2017 (UTC)