Talk:下晡
Latest comment: 5 years ago by Justinrleung in topic The tone sandhi of ē-po͘
The tone sandhi of ē-po͘
[edit]Apparently the 'ē' of the 'ē-po͘' pronunciation is considered not to follow the tone sandhi rules? --Geographyinitiative (talk) 11:31, 13 May 2019 (UTC)
- @Geographyinitiative: Depends on how you analyze it. Often it pronounced like it's ē-po͘ without sandhi, i.e. e-po͘ (with sandhi). — justin(r)leung { (t...) | c=› } 06:47, 14 May 2019 (UTC)
- @Justinrleung: I believe saw some of your work on https://itaigi.tw/k/很多 today! Anyway, should there be some kind of note on this page that says that the 'ē-po͘' pronunciation is without sandhi? Also--- I realized another sandhi anomaly today: 印仔. If you listen to the recording on the Taiwan Min Nan Dictionary website, it sounds like the third tone becomes a first tone, and my Min Nan teachers seem to agree. It's a change, but it's an abnormal change as far as I know, because third tone is supposed to become second tone. --Geographyinitiative (talk) 12:52, 16 May 2019 (UTC)
- @Geographyinitiative: I prefer to analyze it as e-po͘, which we have listed as a pronunciation, following 臺灣閩南語常用詞辭典. As for 印仔, it's a general exception to normal tone sandhi because of 仔, which is reflected in the IPA. — justin(r)leung { (t...) | c=› } 13:04, 16 May 2019 (UTC)
- @Justinrleung: I'm only passingly familiar with the IPA, but I think I understand the tone information. One thing that stood out to me as I was looking at the IPA pronunciations was that I can't see any explanation of those tone numbers (the ¹¹⁻⁴⁴ and ⁵³ /in¹¹⁻⁴⁴ a⁵³/) given on the Wiktionary:International Phonetic Alphabet page. I believe I have learned this word as /in⁴⁴ a⁵³/. Is there any need for a usage note like this on the 仔 page:
- @Geographyinitiative: I prefer to analyze it as e-po͘, which we have listed as a pronunciation, following 臺灣閩南語常用詞辭典. As for 印仔, it's a general exception to normal tone sandhi because of 仔, which is reflected in the IPA. — justin(r)leung { (t...) | c=› } 13:04, 16 May 2019 (UTC)
- @Justinrleung: I believe saw some of your work on https://itaigi.tw/k/很多 today! Anyway, should there be some kind of note on this page that says that the 'ē-po͘' pronunciation is without sandhi? Also--- I realized another sandhi anomaly today: 印仔. If you listen to the recording on the Taiwan Min Nan Dictionary website, it sounds like the third tone becomes a first tone, and my Min Nan teachers seem to agree. It's a change, but it's an abnormal change as far as I know, because third tone is supposed to become second tone. --Geographyinitiative (talk) 12:52, 16 May 2019 (UTC)
- Sorry for wasting your time if I am. Thanks for your help. --Geographyinitiative (talk) 13:34, 16 May 2019 (UTC)
- @Geographyinitiative: In ¹¹⁻⁴⁴, for instance, ¹¹ indicates the original tone and ⁴⁴ is the tone resulting from sandhi. This should probably be noted somewhere, but it seems to be one of the usual ways of indicate tone sandhi/tone change. As for the usage note, we should probably put it in, but there seem to be different rules depending on the dialect, which makes things complicated to explain. For example, Xiamen and Quanzhou still have sandhi to the second tone for 印仔. — justin(r)leung { (t...) | c=› } 13:43, 16 May 2019 (UTC)