Talk:麥菜

RFV discussion: January–June 2021

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麥菜

So far, I can only find this on Cantodict, which defines it only as "kale". Is it "kale" or "collard greens" or both, or does this even exist? I am only aware of 油麥菜 and 苦麥菜, which are kinds of lettuce, not kale or collard greens AFAIK. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 03:59, 11 January 2021 (UTC)

Chinese and English translations for Brassicas are an endless source of confusion. European vegetable varieties mostly were developed from Brassica oleracea, while the Chinese varieties were mostly developed from Brassica rapa. In Europe, at least, superficially similar but botanically diverse varieties were given the same common names. English common names were given to Chinese vegetables based on those same superficial characteristics, even though the Chinese ones are closer to the European turnip, and the European ones are closer to kailan. Basically, there's a tendency for any B. oleracea cultivar grown for its leaves in Europe and North America that doesn't develop a head to be called kale, with collards being an exception- but don't ask me how collards are distinct from the kales as a group. Of course, now the Chinese are growing the European vegetables and Europeans are growing the Chinese ones, so things are even more confused...

So: are we talking about some Chinese plant that fits the general description of a European kale, or are we talking about one or more of the European kales as well as collards, or are we talking about some vague concept of non-heading brassicas that aren't mustard greens, whether they're European or Chinese? Chuck Entz (talk) 04:52, 11 January 2021 (UTC)

@Chuck Entz: Thanks for your elaboration. I think this entry was created a little hastily by @Mar vin kaiser, who seems to have just taken this from Cantodict with the definition taken from 羽衣甘藍, which @Tooironic created to include both "kale" and "collard greens" in the same definition line. I am actually doubting the existence of the word 麥菜 because it looks like re-analysis of vegetables like 油麥菜 and 苦麥菜, which probably do not derive from something called 麥菜. I cannot find 麥菜 in other Cantonese dictionaries I have. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 05:07, 11 January 2021 (UTC)

This looks like 油麥菜 rather than kale as I know it. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 05:12, 11 January 2021 (UTC)

Yep. Looks like lettuce to me, too. Chuck Entz (talk) 05:58, 11 January 2021 (UTC)

Cited with a changed definition: (chiefly Guangdong) Short for 莜麥菜／莜麦菜 (yóumàicài, “Taiwanese lettuce; a-choy”). — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 23:20, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

• RFV passed. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 00:41, 20 June 2021 (UTC)