Talk:Türkiye

Usage note: all-caps form

@LlywelynII: There is a usage note here, “The officially prescribed all caps form is TÜRKİYE, with a dotted capital İ”, similar to the one you removed from İznik, calling it a “misunderstanding”. I did not add this one, but believe that these usage notes do belong, as they are prescriptions for English usage. J3133 (talk) 13:51, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

@J3133 Except they don't because they aren't. They're prescriptions for how to write Turkish in Turkish. The English language doesn't have that letter.

That said, I would leave it here at Türkiye only because the government of Turkey (sorry... TÜRKİYE) is making a half-hearted effort to force that specific Turkish name into general international usage and it's worthwhile to note how to do it properly... even though English absolutely won't as a general rule since the average English speaker has no idea what İ is even trying to be.

The alternative is to template it and force it into entries for every single Turkish placename that involves the letter İ... which should hopefully point out the absurdity of the idea, even if Wikipedia defaults to using Turkish and Vietnamese diacritics while omitting Mandarin and Cantonese tone marks just for kicks. — LlywelynII 13:56, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

@LlywelynII: English does not have this letter in its alphabet, but this seems irrelevant as other English entries we have with non-English letters do not either (and İznik already has one). J3133 (talk) 14:05, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

@J3133 See above on what the choices are. Treat these as the unadapted borrowings they actually are or create duplicate entries for every single Turkish place name with the letter as soon as an attestation pops up.

In either case, my own opinion is that the usage note only belongs here where the interested people will be interested in being hypercorrect. Of course I'll defer to the consensus if you build one at the scriptorium in favor of all the needless duplicate entries. (Note that I haven't removed any. I've just pared them down and marked their etymology with the "unadapted borrowing" template.) Will we also be creating English entries for all the pinyin-marked blogs and academic articles on Chinese places? (Incidentally, fair enough that Hà Nội gets the treatment it does... but note how minimal it is. We don't include individual usage notes on every tonal entry there and we still shouldn't here. Note also the risk it poses for creating German, French, Spanish, etc. duplicate entries for just using Vietnamese in any running text in any language.) — LlywelynII 14:12, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

They are already treated as unadapted borrowings, and I am not arguing that they are not. J3133 (talk) 14:22, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

Then we don't need to rehash the language's orthography every time the letter pops up, what. (All that said, I do still think it does belong here since this is an entry for a pointedly hypercorrect form and should discuss how to be properly hypercorrect.) — LlywelynII 14:24, 25 February 2024 (UTC)