User talk:Suzukaze-c

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Chinese Characters for Transcribing Slavonic[edit]

Hello, I have had some questions regarding the Chinese characters for transcribing Slavonic. Do you feel it would be alright to include their pronunciation (eg. 鿦 shows pronunciation as vin, 鿚 shows pronunciation as gi, etc.)? —This unsigned comment was added by (talk).

鿚 represents gi, but I wonder if gi is actually the pronunciation? (were they read using original Slavic pronunciation, were they read using a Chinese approximation...?) (鿚 = gi is definitely important information.) —Suzukaze-c 21:54, 22 June 2018 (UTC)


You have new messages Hello, Suzukaze-c. You have new messages at MediaWiki talk:Common.css#Japanese uses MS PGothic but it should use Meiryo.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{talkback}} template.

-- 20:51, 4 July 2018 (UTC)

Hakka pronunciations for Malaysian place names[edit]

I'm wondering where you're getting these. We have really limited support for Hakka dialects - just Sixian and Meixian. — justin(r)leung (t...) | c=› } 19:15, 17 July 2018 (UTC)

I stumbled across "Hakka Lessons for Malayan Students" on Google Books. I am not sure what dialect it describes though. It's not easy to figure things out from 6-line snippets... —Suzukaze-c 19:23, 17 July 2018 (UTC)
Whichever it's describing is definitely not Sixian, which is only spoken in Taiwan. I've removed the reading at 新埠 for now. — justin(r)leung (t...) | c=› } 19:33, 17 July 2018 (UTC)
This says that it's Huizhou Hakka, which seems to be common in Malaysia. — justin(r)leung (t...) | c=› } 19:35, 17 July 2018 (UTC)
Oh, cool. —Suzukaze-c 19:36, 17 July 2018 (UTC)
It looks like Mantaro Hashimoto says it is the Meixian dialect. —Suzukaze-c 05:21, 18 July 2018 (UTC)

Use of Template:bor for on'yomi terms[edit]

I think it was you that (I noticed) first started using {{bor}} for the etyms of on'yomi terms. Fumiko has decided to be a dick again over at 女性, here, and here. (I've blocked her for three days for abusiveness and edit warring.) I have read the documentation, and it looks to me like {{bor}} could apply -- especially as we haven't differentiated the historical stages of the Japanese language.

What's your take?

‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 01:29, 24 July 2018 (UTC)

Hmm, was it me? I tend to not add the etymology for kango (can't be too sure...). At this very moment in time, near the end of July 2018, I think would use {{der|ja|ltc}} for kango???? I'm not sure though. I can be inconsistent with the things I do when I don't have a terribly strong opinion either way. {{bor}} absolutely makes sense too, and I disagree very much with Fumiko's dickish behavior. —Suzukaze-c 04:03, 24 July 2018 (UTC)

Technical issue with Template:zh-see[edit]

Hey suzukaze,

I'm seeing instances of the {{zh-see}} template showing "tr=-" text for unknown reasons, sometimes after valid linked words are shown. I figured you might know more about template issues than I do. Cheers! Bumm13 (talk) 14:46, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

@Bumm13: Do you have an example? —Suzukaze-c 20:35, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
Finally found it. Here at 𧈡. Bumm13 (talk) 21:34, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
It seems to be faulty processing of {{zh-alt-form|早|tr=-}}. I think I've fixed it. —Suzukaze-c 21:59, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

{{nonlemma}} non-optimal[edit]

I noticed in one of your recent edits that you are adding {{nonlemma}} for alternative forms. That itself is fine, and no concerns from me. What is a concern, however, is the confusing format and output of this template. It says,

See etymology on the main entry.

... which links not to the main entry, as suggested by the format, but instead to Wiktionary:Lemmas, which I think will confuse many users. It's not immediately clear at all even what the "main entry" would be.

I'd like to propose updating {{nonlemma}} to, say, take the actual "main entry" term as an argument, and output a link? For the 苟且 (karisome) entry, it would then look more like:


Would you have any objection?

‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 20:31, 24 August 2018 (UTC)

I agree that the link is misleading. I guess the main entry is already linked to in the rest of the entry though. —Suzukaze-c 20:37, 24 August 2018 (UTC)

Wikipedia has an article on:[edit]

For and a hundred other articles, I added the template zh-wp which links to Chinese wikipedia. Although the content of the 不 article was not really related to the senses of 不 discussed on wiktionary, I thought that 1、不 is inherently related to 不 no matter the content in the articles and 2、"Wikipedia has an article on: 不" was a factual statement. I agree with your reservations and was hesitant to add the link, but for the two reasons stated above, I added it anyway. I'm not really too concerned either way; if you don't like some of the other zh-wp's I added, let me know. I will try to follow whatever established pattern or policy on relevance that we have. Also, let me know what you think of the pics I added. --Geographyinitiative (talk) 13:12, 1 September 2018 (UTC)

It's not related to any of the senses on the page though... If I see a link on Wiktionary saying "Chinese Wikipedia: 不", I might expect something on negative particles, not a South African song. IMO, it looks silly. —Suzukaze-c 00:18, 2 September 2018 (UTC)
The point of the Wikipedia links is to provide a source for encyclopedic information that doesn't belong in a dictionary. If the Wikipedia article doesn't elaborate on what the definitions refer to, it shouldn't be linked to from the entry. Chuck Entz (talk) 03:54, 2 September 2018 (UTC)
I understand your points completely. I agree the link looked silly. I see now that a link to a wikipedia article is only appropriate if the wikipedia article being linked 'elaborates on what the wiktionary definitions refer to'. I will only add these links if there is a connection between the wiktionary definitions and the content of the wikipedia article. --Geographyinitiative (talk) 11:17, 2 September 2018 (UTC)


I could explain my rationale for not creating that page, but it would sound silly. Looks fine. --Geographyinitiative (talk) 01:25, 3 September 2018 (UTC)

? It could be possible, although Wikipedia seems to be fine with 葉, and 葉 makes more sense semantically as well. I suppose it would also be normalized into 協 in simplified Chinese, as well. Being too cautious isn't bad though. —Suzukaze-c 01:29, 3 September 2018 (UTC)

Audio display issue with Template:zh-pron[edit]

Not sure if you saw the ping on Discord, so I thought I'd leave you a message. Seeing as this isn't going to be dealt with any time soon, is there a stopgap measure that can be employed? Weirdly excessive spacing for some people is preferable to IPA being obscured by an audiofile for other people. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 04:02, 11 September 2018 (UTC)

Module:User:Suzukaze-c/zh-pron#non-template_model has a "fix" but it's weird and I don't know if it works in all browsers. I suppose it could be added to the live code if people determine that it's an OK hack. I can't figure out why the original audio player thing acts so terribly. —Suzukaze-c 04:14, 11 September 2018 (UTC)
It works on both Chrome and Safari for me (the current template works on neither for me). I think it's a vast improvement, but you'll have to poll the Chinese editorship before going live. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 04:26, 11 September 2018 (UTC)

Pinging @Wyang, Justinrleung, KevinUp. —Suzukaze-c 21:58, 11 September 2018 (UTC)

The suggested fix looks good to me. I like how compact the MC and OC readings look. It may be slightly cumbersome to click on a particular arrow to reveal its IPA reading/audio file but I think it is a good stopgap measure we can use for the time being. I suggest we put it live for a few days to see if there are any potential hiccups with it. KevinUp (talk) 00:06, 12 September 2018 (UTC)
Is this for the audio only or for the whole template? The non-template model at present seems a bit 單調 to me. If we want to overhaul the template, I really like this. Wyang (talk) 00:49, 12 September 2018 (UTC)
Just the audio, using the <div> around the [[File: element. Ignore everything else. —Suzukaze-c 01:26, 12 September 2018 (UTC)
Ah okay, (don't know what it will look like but) certainly, any improvement would be good. Wyang (talk) 04:55, 12 September 2018 (UTC)
@Wyang The new model on codepen looks really nice. I hope it can interact with the "Visibility" function in the sidebar. --Dine2016 (talk) 05:04, 12 September 2018 (UTC)

Yes check.svg DoneSuzukaze-c 04:55, 12 September 2018 (UTC)


Hi. I'm a bit confused about your edit here. I've never seen three whole sentences used as a definition in a Chinese entry before. Is there a way we can use standard formatting here? ---> Tooironic (talk) 04:43, 12 September 2018 (UTC)

My answer is the same as last time. I'd definitely like to replace it with a short English translation (rather than an "explanation") if there was one. —Suzukaze-c 04:47, 12 September 2018 (UTC)
Yeah, sorry for bugging you again about it. I just happened to come across it on my watchlist. I thanked Frank for his edit. I think it's a good compromise. ---> Tooironic (talk) 12:52, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
No worries. I like the new revision too. —Suzukaze-c 17:05, 18 September 2018 (UTC)

Trimming Google urls[edit]

I noticed you did this at [[hooker]].

What part of the link to a highlighted page is superfluous?

Also, how do I prevent the occasional accidental display to users of parts of a google url? (I don't have an example handy.)

Even a less-than-definitive answer (a rule of thumb) would be useful. Thanks in advance. DCDuring (talk) 12:57, 15 September 2018 (UTC)

I try deleting everything that doesn't look necessary; at hooker, I have left what appears to be
  1. a book id,
  2. a page number, and
  3. a search query,
and it still works.
I'm not sure what you mean by "occasional display"... —Suzukaze-c 21:13, 15 September 2018 (UTC)
Accidental display would result from a space in the URL, which causes everything after the space to be interpreted as part of the caption. Normally they would be converted to %20 or + in the URL itself, but modern browsers will let you get away with nonstandard formatting, and sometimes a space will get introduced in the copy-pasting process. Chuck Entz (talk) 21:56, 15 September 2018 (UTC)
Thanks. I have successfully applied your heuristic at [[skeeve]] (first cite).
I have a live example of the "occasional display": the 1993 cite at [[skeeve]]. I recall that Ruakh once helped me with the problem, but I don't recall how. DCDuring (talk) 22:46, 15 September 2018 (UTC)
Ah, that problem. The quotation marks are not being recognized as part of the URL for whatever reason, so they must be manually percent-encoded into %22 ([1]). Compare to the URL for the Lou Cameron quote. —Suzukaze-c 23:06, 15 September 2018 (UTC)
Excellent. Thank you. I'll try to get that into my PROM. DCDuring (talk) 23:15, 15 September 2018 (UTC)


  • ゐ、ゑ and を are a large important part of the historical kana orthography. About 200 entries were in each newly created "history spelled with" category.
  • I have not yet come up with how to track historical わ. But this does not mean ゐ、ゑ、を should not be tracked. If you don't know either, do not obstruct others.

Huhu9001 (talk) 03:24, 23 September 2018 (UTC)

Maybe a start would be having the module look for a headword or pagename containing わ and historical hiragana containing は, though I assume that sometimes わ and は do not correspond so there would be false positives. (This search query gives partial results: hastemplate:"Module:ja-headword" insource:/\{\{ja-[^|}]+\|[^|}]*わ[^|}]*\|hhira=[^|}]*は/.) — Eru·tuon 03:58, 23 September 2018 (UTC)
To Eru: I think that is a good idea. Maybe we can find out some methods to also track きやう → きょう, しやう → しょう, etc. simultaneously. Huhu9001 (talk) 08:20, 24 September 2018 (UTC)
I've added an easy-to-test function in Module:ja-headword/sandbox and started a list of examples at Module:ja-headword/sandbox/testcases. Could you help by adding some more examples of sound changes and possible category titles? — Eru·tuon 18:26, 24 September 2018 (UTC)
I'd like to point out that, without additional user-provided information, it can be impossible to programmatically determine whether a given instance of しやう etc. is an earlier spelling of a modern monophthong. For example, the kana spelling of 仕様 (shiyō, specification) is now しよう, from earlier しやう. I may be wrong, but I don't think this term was ever read as monophthong /ɕʲoː/. ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 18:50, 24 September 2018 (UTC)
If I understand you right, that shouldn't be an issue, because the function is comparing the modern spelling to the historical one; it can't do anything if either one is absent. — Eru·tuon 19:03, 24 September 2018 (UTC)
Yes, given the modern spelling, it should be an easy task to “parse” or “regex match” the historical spelling using a table such as Historical kana orthography#Complete tables of differences. The only issue I see is when the modern and the historical differ too much, e.g. あおぐ(仰ぐ) vs. あふぐ. --Dine2016 (talk) 15:07, 25 September 2018 (UTC) [EDIT: there are also irregular changes like がくかう→がっこう、てんわう→てんのう, etc. --Dine2016 (talk) 14:58, 26 September 2018 (UTC)]
Thank you both, I believe that fully addresses my concern. ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 16:16, 25 September 2018 (UTC)