Talk:out of

Matching up synonyms

It's not clear how best to match up the synonyms. If all four can match both senses (2) and (3), then (2) and (3) should probably be collapsed. Here are my very subjective assessments.

• The cat is exterior to the bag. Sounds affected, but makes sense.
• The cat is external to the bag. Sounds dodgy to me, curious what others might think
• The cat is outside of the bag. Sounds overly emphatic, but makes sense
• The cat is without the bag. Not able to say. Guessing this wouldn't be said.

• This is exterior to my area of expertise. Sounds wrong.
• This is external to my area of expertise. Sounds fine.
• This is outside of my area of expertise. Sounds fine.
• This is without my area of expertise. Not able to say, but guessing this is fine.

That the two test sentences have different degrees of success with at least some of the synonyms strongly suggests there are separate senses involved.

Note that none of these works with senses (1), (4) or (5) (except maybe without, but I'm skeptical). -dmh 03:11, 20 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I argued her out of leaving

What meaning is used in I argued her out of leaving ? --Backinstadiums (talk) 20:49, 6 November 2019 (UTC)

"So as no longer to be in a given condition or state." Equinox ◑ 03:09, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

In, especially intermittently in

He works out of the main office --Backinstadiums (talk) 10:17, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

 Done Bizarre... Equinox ◑ 03:11, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

rob money out of the till

rob money out of the till --Backinstadiums (talk) 15:04, 13 August 2020 (UTC)

Nonidiomatic

Let's cut out of here. --Backinstadiums (talk) 17:10, 4 October 2020 (UTC)

The ship sank 10 miles out of Stockholm

I don't think this meaning is covered yet --Backinstadiums (talk) 08:23, 27 April 2021 (UTC)

"Based out of", etc. actually meaning "in"

See discussion at Talk:based. Equinox ◑ 23:03, 16 July 2022 (UTC)

RFV discussion: May 2024

The following discussion has been moved from Wiktionary:Requests for verification (permalink).

This discussion is no longer live and is left here as an archive. Please do not modify this conversation, but feel free to discuss its conclusions.

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out of

RFV adverb sense:

• (often informal) expression of how distant a person or an object is.

Five meters out of the ocean

Don't understand this. Don't understand how the usage example is adverbial, or even really what it is supposed to refer to, or how it relates to the definition. Listing here in case anyone else can find anything useful in it. Mihia (talk) 21:39, 4 May 2024 (UTC)

Hm, it occurred to me subsequently that this could be about uses such as "the rock is submerged at high tide, but at low tide it's six feet out of the water". Still wouldn't be adverbial though. Mihia (talk) 00:16, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

@Mihia I read it as referring to distance along a path that starts inside the place in question: "I found the seaweed five meters out of the ocean, above the high-tide line- how did it get there?", Chuck Entz (talk) Chuck Entz (talk) 00:30, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

In the Online Collaborative Dictoanry of English through “out of”, in OneLook Dictionary Search. I found:

Out of, a phrase ^[sic] which may be considered either as composed of an adverb and a preposition, each having its appropriate office in the sentence, or as a compound preposition. Considered as a preposition, it denotes, with verbs of movement or action, ["]from the interior of; beyond the limit: from; hence, origin, source, motive, departure, separation, loss, etc.["]; -- opposed to in or into; also with verbs of being, "the state of being derived, removed, or separated from." Examples may be found in the phrases below, and also under Vocabulary words; as, out of breath; out of countenance.

I don't see how the "phrase" can fruitfully be considered an adverb, though out alone is. In principle this seems like an RfD matter, not one for RfV. DCDuring (talk) 01:53, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

Yes, now we've established that presumably it refers to existing (or should-be-existing) prepositional senses, I'll move it to RFD. Mihia (talk) 09:57, 5 May 2024 (UTC)