Appendix talk:English dialect-independent homophones

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one more[edit]

gilt/guilt, should this be filed under "Kit" words?

Only good for some American dialects[edit]

Even though it states at the bottom that the words are American English spelling, it does not say that some of them (eg cot/caught) are only present in some American English dialects.

Also cream/creme is not a homophone pair, as creme has a 'short e' like hem.

I'm working on this. Jimp 16:01, 14 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I grew up in Minnesota and there both cream and creme do sound the same when people say them. so at least in one spot in America they are. 72.239.76.94 02:56, 10 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Should use IPA[edit]

Should be rewritten to use IPA symbols - m-w.com symbols are very non-standard.

I have tagged the page with convertIPA template.--B.d.mills 00:20, 25 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I've finished off the conversion to IPA & removed the tag. However, some of the IPA was a bit off. I've been fixing this. Jimp 16:01, 14 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Other dialects[edit]

Surprisingly, almost all the homophones listed here apply in probably most non-American dialects, certainly in my own (Australian): the obvious exceptions I noticed were those that assumed the vowels in 'law' and 'mop' were the same, and also it ignored the marry/merry/Mary distinction (which even exists in some US dialects). Of course it also excludes all non-rhotic homophones (saw/sore etc.), which might be interesting to include.

It's not just "interesting" to include non-rhotic homophones, it is a necessity. The page is titled "List of homophones" but excludes non-rhotic homophones. Examples of nonrhotic homophones: caught/court (but not cot), sauce/source, formerly/formally, area/airier.
This is why I tagged the page with the globalize template.--B.d.mills 00:20, 25 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I'm working on it. The page is no longer a one-dialect job but there is still work to be done. I've removed statements that is was American-English-specific but the globalise tag should stay for now. Jimp 16:01, 14 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I have removed the tag. There are still a great many details left to cover; there probably always will be. However, I think I've got the list to a stage where the tag no longer is appropriate. Jimp 07:17, 16 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Homographs & categorisation[edit]

The definition from homophone includes words with identical spellings but distinct meanings, with mean being a good example. It may be worth providing a separate list for such homonyms (admittedly it would harder to agree on what makes meanings distinct).

The categorization is not really by sound, since all sounds in homophones should match. It seems to be organized rather by stressed vowel (and following consonant), as would be used in a rhyming dictionary. This is not at all bad, but one could also sort more lexicographical, but by phonetics rather than spelling (since spelling is not unique), or even just alphabetically (with cross-references for far apart words like know and no), with each entry sorting the homophones alaphabetically also. DRLB 15:11, 13 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

under which section do I place hyperbolae/hyperbole ? --Spoon! 22:17, 8 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The way the list of homophones are done at the moment seems a bit disorderly. I think someone should find a better, neater and more efficient way of displaying the homophones. Also, I think it's unnesesery to include names of people because they aren't proper words, plus, they are pronounced in many different ways, as are many of the other groups of homophones.

Maybe if it was done alphabetically like this: "awe/ore/or" e.g Then if further down, alphabetically one of the other words should be there, you could just say: "Ore, See awe" which redirects you to the awe/or/ore homophone. I think that they should also have definitions on the opposite side of the page to make identifying the different meanings of words easier. Here is a website I think has a pretty good template (although i'm not so keen on the actual homophones he uses.) Alan Cooperman's Homophone List Well there are my views. Enjoy! --Coin945 21:24, 27 December 2006 (Western Australian Time)

I've tried to sort things out a bit. I'm grouping things by lexical set (using those of Well's for now at least). Essentially this is still sorting by "sound" but recognises that what sounds the same in one dialect might sound different in another. This should allow us to more easily globalise the page. I don't like the idea of alphabetising things at all. If things are simply ordered alphabetically, it'll be all the more difficult to see the effect of dialect. As of today I've not changed a lot in this respect but change is coming. Jimp 16:01, 14 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Transwiki[edit]

I've tagged this to be moved to Wiktionary as it deals more with the words themselves rather than the phenomenon of homophony. It seems to me that Wikipedia is not a place for such lists. Jimp 16:01, 14 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Done. Jimp 09:25, 16 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

List of links from Wikipedia[edit]

To the best of my knowledge the following is a complete list of all Wikipedia articles with links either here or to Appendix:List of dialect-dependent homophones as of now (17 1/2 hours after the list's being transwikied). Jimp 03:26, 17 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Whale/Wail[edit]

I wonder if they fit here, since the WH sound is in some dialects distinguished from W. I think words with the wh/w opposition should be only in the list of dialect dependent homophones, or this possible opposition should be expressly remarked. weal/wheal/wheel/we'll (/'wiːl, 'ʍiːl/) weald/wield/wheeled (/'wiːld, 'ʍiːld/), etc--200.103.135.215 01:44, 3 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

You're absolutely right. Moving these to Appendix:List of dialect-independent homophones been on my to-do list for while. Jimp 04:34, 5 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

weather/whether/wether[edit]

Wondering there is agreement that "wether" should be added to this group. 202.63.40.179 23:37, 29 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Ate[edit]

Should ate be here? As it is nearly always rhymes with get not gate except for some younger speakers (At least it does in the U.K). I think it should be moved to the dialect dependent homophones as this is an international English homophone list. --DanielR235 17:10, 29 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

-aret[edit]

One of my favorite homonyms is caret-carat-karat-carrot. Two words have very similar meanings, but they are nonetheless all different.

Possibly the most classic homonym set is rite-write-right-wright, which reflects parallel linguistic origins.

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