Category talk:Hungarian adjectives suffixed with -i

This discussion was moved from Category talk:Hungarian adjectives suffixed with -i (adjective):

@Panda10 Do you think we should move most of the 980 existing adjectives here and use this category in the future (by inserting |id2=adjective in {{af}}), or should we instead link to |-i#Hungarian-adjective in {{af}}? (Both link to the specific "(adjective-forming suffix)" section on the target page; the only difference seems to be whether this present category is used.) Its current name looks redundant, although there is a rarely used coordinate Category:Hungarian adjectives suffixed with -i (diminutive). Adam78 (talk) 13:11, 20 February 2021 (UTC)

@Adam78 The category structure with the suffix -i is very complicated. The duplicates are more visible if all subcategories are expanded.

• Category:Hungarian interjections suffixed with -i (diminutive) contains a manually added line: Category:Hungarian diminutive interjections.
• Category:Hungarian diminutive interjections is completely manual, no {{auto cat}}. It contains oksi which is suffixed with -si and not -i but the description of the category is "Hungarian interjections ending with the suffix -i".

Are these necessary?

The problem is that the general category structure and the id parameter clash with the specific Hungarian structure where the category names contain the part of speech. Other languages use only "<Language> words suffixed with -xx". Also, there is a built-in function in the system. Whenever pos2=diminutive suffix is used in the etymology, the system will put the word into the Category:Hungarian diminutive nouns, Category:Hungarian diminutive adjectives, Category:Hungarian diminutive interjections depending on the value of the pos parameter. As you said, the name Category:Hungarian adjectives suffixed with -i (adjective) is redundant, so we have to do something else. I wonder if we should start with the ideal category structure we want to have and go from there? Should we give up the part of speech-specific category names and - whenever it makes sense - move back to Hungarian words suffixed with -xx? It would definitely reduce the number of categories. Another idea regarding the original adjective question is to stop using the id parameter since the adjective-forming suffix is the first of the four etymologies in -i and if the user clicks on the -i suffix, it will jump very close to the definition. The diminutive -i is a different matter, of course. There we need the id parameter. Panda10 (talk) 21:37, 20 February 2021 (UTC)

@Panda10 I looked up in Google the English-languages categories with a particular part of speech specified, and I found Category:English adjectives suffixed with -some (also: -ful and two more categories for the nouns with the same suffixes), so this solution is not unheard of there, either. I found there a similar solution (with {{suffix}} and without a hyphen, but altogether with the same result). -some is a good example because it has multiple senses and etymologies (no fewer than five), just like Hungarian -i.

As far as page-internal linking is concerned, I don't think we could rely on the current order of senses (one day they might be changed for whatever reason) and I think the blue highlight is really convenient (otherwise the reader can't know if they are at the right place already or they should go on searching for the relevant sense farther below), so I'd still suggest using |-i#Hungarian-adjective to make the intended target unambiguous. Having "id2" there is not a good idea also because the resulting term may be eventually a noun too (e.g. Széchenyi), even though it does ultimately have the adjective-forming suffix. The name "Hungarian proper nouns suffixed with -i (adjective)" would look like a self-contraction while "Hungarian proper nouns suffixed with -i (adjective-forming suffix)" would be too lengthy. However, they still need to be distinguished from the diminutive -i especially because there are so many of them (more than one thousand already). As a last resort, we could keep the non-diminutive -i adjectives in the parent category and the diminutive ones in its own subcategory, as it seems to be the case now.

I wouldn't mind simplyfing the category tree if we can meaningfully do so. In fact, we could probably get rid of the parenthetical part and keep only the POS in their names. Do you think it would solve the problem? We could similarly eliminate the "|id2=" parameters, replacing them with "#Hungarian-". That's the best I can imagine for the time being. Adam78 (talk) 16:39, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

@Adam78 I also went through the English category tree and found the same as you: -some, -ment, -ful, -en with part of speech in the category name. If "word" is used in the category name, the qualifier in parentheses are various: diminutive, diminutive noun, person associated, gerund noun, participle, agent noun, comparative, entertainment, inhabitant, verbal frequentative. But the vast majority is English words suffixed with -xx. For Hungarian, the rule is to use part of speech, for English it is the exception. Unfortunately, we can't delete the parent category Hungarian words suffixed with -xx. As I mentioned somewhere else, they were created by a bot because I assume something else needs it. I don't know. I'm fine with your recommended solution. What was the reason you had to add manual script to Category:Hungarian diminutive interjections? Panda10 (talk) 17:15, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

@Panda10 Because {{auto cat}} didn't work there (and I either didn't take the trouble to locate the page where the problem derived from or I didn't manage to find it). I have just added it now, so maybe Category:Hungarian interjections suffixed with -i (diminutive) could be deleted, just like this present Category:Hungarian adjectives suffixed with -i (adjective). Thank you in advance. Btw, I didn't mean that "Hungarian words suffixed with -i" should be deleted, just we shouldn't use it for Hungarian entries, only for storing subcategories. Adam78 (talk) 17:41, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

@Adam78 Thanks for fixing it. I will delete Category:Hungarian adjectives suffixed with -i (adjective) but before I do that, I want to move this conversation to somewhere else where it will be saved. Any suggestions? Are you sure to delete Category:Hungarian interjections suffixed with -i (diminutive)? It has content. Panda10 (talk) 17:48, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

@Panda10 I suppose you could move this discussion to Category talk:Hungarian adjectives suffixed with -i. Yes, Category:Hungarian interjections suffixed with -i (diminutive) can be deleted because its content is included in Category:Hungarian diminutive interjections. Adam78 (talk) 17:55, 21 February 2021 (UTC)