Reconstruction talk:Proto-Slavic/vymę

Is this Old East Slavic вымя (vymja) correct? Shouldn't it be вымѧ (vymę)? --Per utramque cavernam (talk) 21:00, 18 April 2018 (UTC)

@Per utramque cavernam it should be вꙑмѧ (vymę), see WT:AORV.—Игорь Тълкачь (talk) 17:34, 21 April 2018 (UTC)

Etymological explanation

Can anyone explain how one gets from *h₁ówHdʰr̥ to vymę? How are they even cognates? BirdValiant (talk) 03:08, 8 December 2019 (UTC)

@BirdValiant: The Slavic suffix *-mę (also *-my) is built upon the Early Proto-Indo-European suffixes *-mr̥ and *-mō. In the earlier stages of PIE, nouns were split into strong /nom., acc. ~ ergative-absolutive-patient cases + vocative form/ and weak cases /all other cases/, which were apparently distinguished either via ablaut pattern in the declension or/and by shift in the ending best illustrated by the r/n-declension *-r̥. Over time, each language gave priority to one of the two endings - e.g. in English water that was the strong ending -r, while in Slavic *-mę it was the weak one -n (whence Proto-Slavic *-mę).

In the particular case of *vymę, the proto-form was likely *h₁ówHdʰmr̥ ~ *h₁uHdʰméns with regular reduction of *-dm- > *-m-. Compare for instance Proto-Slavic *plemę (“tribe”) < *pledmę or Proto-Slavic *vermę (“time”) < *vertmę. 90.196.185.60 13:19, 5 March 2020 (UTC)

Wouldn't it be a good idea to list *h₁ówHdʰmr̥ ~ *h₁uHdʰméns somewhere? Who reconstructed those versions? Where does the /m/ come from? BirdValiant (talk) 16:28, 5 March 2020 (UTC)

@BirdValiant: You have to ask admins or the author of the etymology regarding this issue. A direct descent of Proto-Slavic *vymę from *h₁ówHdʰr̥ is indeed impossible, however, on the other hand, linguists don't reconstruct PIE forms based on data from a single branch. Thus, reconstructing *h₁ówHdʰmr̥ at the level of PIE would be a little over the board. Probably overwriting *h₁ówHdʰr̥ as *h₁ówHdʰmr̥ like I did here (and still linking to *h₁ówHdʰr̥) is some compromise solution. I can't tell - I'm not so familiar with Wiktionary standards... 90.196.185.60 20:59, 5 March 2020 (UTC)