Talk:大雑把

Derivation

@Poketalker, see also Gogen Allguide and Weblio's entry from the 実用日本語表現辞典, which provide some perspective. HTH! ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │^{Tala við mig} 09:10, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

@Eirikr: it has been a while, but do you think the root -zappa is either related to or a cognate with さっぱり (sappari)? ～ POKéTalker（＝◉＝） 16:28, 27 July 2023 (UTC)

@Poketalker --

フムフム... I did just find this at Weblio: https://www.weblio.jp/content/%E9%9B%91%E6%8A%8A

雑把
読み方：ざっぱ・ざっぽう
雑にまとめられた一まとまりのもの、などの意味の表現。「大雑把」「薪雑把」などの言葉の中で使われる。

Then for 薪雑把, we are given two readings: まきざっぱ, and まきざっぽう.

... but as best I can tell, these are the only two words (or three, depending on how we count) that include this 雑把 element. Might be worth checking slang dictionaries if you have any access to these (I don't really), and maybe even Chinese?

Meanwhile, for さっぱり (sappari), this is an adverb with the common pattern of a medial geminate consonant and an ending in り (-ri). These generally (maybe always?) come in clusters, although some clusters are defective (missing forms) due to collisions (homophony) of certain forms with other words. I remember dimly discussing this a while back with someone else... Aha, found it: Talk:どくん#Part_of_speech, wherein I also listed root さわ (historical さは). Some of these adverbial roots also extend with Old Japanese-based adjective-forming suffixes, such as here with 爽やか (sawayaka, historical sahayaka) and now-obsolete 爽らか (sawaraka, historical saharaka).

Given the underlying meanings, I don't think these (-zappa and sappari) are related. ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │^{Tala við mig} 17:56, 27 July 2023 (UTC)

Doh! Just realized the weblio link I just gave is the same one from before. Clearly, it's time for my coffee! 😄 ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │^{Tala við mig} 18:00, 27 July 2023 (UTC)