Talk:疏勒

Variant reading: Sūlè ㄙㄨ ㄌㄜˋ ?

Conclusion:

I'm not 100% sure that this is a legitimate variant reading (that is, it was/is a reading that was legitimately a part of Mandarin Chinese communication) or if it just warrants some kind of usage note. At this time, I'm following the theory that this is a legitimate variant pronunciation for the Mandarin name of the ancient nation as well as the current county and town, and I'm adding it to the page (",Sūlè,2nb=variant").

Rationale:

1) Overwhelming evidence that the sū ㄙㄨ reading for 疏 is a part of Mandarin Chinese:

http://dict.revised.moe.edu.tw/cgi-bin/cbdic/gsweb.cgi?o=dcbdic&searchid=W00000010102 "字詞 【疏】 部首：疋 部首外筆畫數：6 總筆畫數：11 注音 2（又音）ㄙㄨ 漢語拼音 2（又音）sū 釋義 1之又音。 1 ㄕㄨ　shū"

2) Inherent plausibility of this reading (sū ㄙㄨ reading for 疏) being part of Mandarin Chinese given pronunciations for 疏 in other Chinese languages which retain older pronunciations:

Cantonese (Jyutping): so1

Hakka (Sixian, PFS): sô

Min Nan (POJ): so͘ / soe / se

3) Strong evidence that some people have understood the 疏 in 疏勒 to be read as sū ㄙㄨ

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ae/Txu-oclc-6654394-nj-43-5th-ed.jpg "SU-LO";

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Operational_Navigation_Chart_G-7,_6th_edition.jpg "SHU-LE (SU-LE)";

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Txu-pclmaps-oclc-22834566_g-7a.jpg "(SU-LE) SHULE (walled)"

https://geonames.nga.mil/namesgaz

Su-lo Hsien (Variant - V) javascript:OpenDetailWin('32FA88269CCF3774E0440003BA962ED3', 'DC')

Su-lo Shan (Variant - V) 疏勒南山 (Non-Roman Script - NS) javascript:OpenDetailWin('32FA88269CD13774E0440003BA962ED3', 'DC')

Su-lo (Variant - V) javascript:OpenDetailWin('32FA88269CE43774E0440003BA962ED3', 'DC')

Su-lo-chen (Variant - V) javascript:OpenDetailWin('32FA88269CEA3774E0440003BA962ED3', 'DC')

Su-lo-hsien (Variant - V) javascript:OpenDetailWin('32FA88269CE93774E0440003BA962ED3', 'DC')

4) Clear evidence that the names of ancient kingdoms in the Tarim Basin sometimes utilized what are now variant/rare pronunciations for Mandarin Chinese characters:

且末 (Qiěmò)

月氏 (yuèzhī)

--Geographyinitiative (talk) 23:54, 24 March 2020 (UTC) (modified)

@Geographyinitiative I don't think the pronunciation Shūlè is actually in use. Please note shū, not sū, is the expected pronunciation of the character 疏 given it begins with 生母 in Middle Chinese. Guoyu Cidian gives only the pronunciation Shūlè under the entry 疏勒縣. Hanyu Da Cidian makes no special note of its pronunciation, which points to the expected pronunciation Shūlè. RcAlex36 (talk) 12:25, 11 February 2021 (UTC)

I think the pronunciation 'Sūlè' is likely in use in the sense that southern people will mispronounce 'Shūlè' as 'Sūlè'. My issue is whether or not 'Sūlè' was ever intended to be the official pronunciation. I am removing the 'Sūlè' pronunciation from the page for now because the evidence is not strong enough that anyone has ever said 'Sūlè' intentionally meaning Sū and not Shū. --Geographyinitiative (talk) 13:40, 11 February 2021 (UTC)