Talk:知識分子

Who are '知識分子'? Who are 'educated persons' Who are 'intellectuals'? Who are the 'intelligentsia'?

I'm going to put forward my basic position here, and if you think it doesn't make sense, I will try to answer any questions posed or look for any specific evidence requested. ~~ After a discussion I had the other day, I came to the conclusion that it is absolutely a mistake to equate all instances of '知識分子' with the English 'intellectual' like is done at zdic: [1] Why? While it doesn't explicitly say this in the 现代汉语词典 & 现代汉语规范词典 definitions, those definitions seems to imply that ALL doctors, teachers, engineers, authors etc are 知識分子, and to me, that 范围 is so, so different from the 范围 for term 'intellectual' and MUCH more similar to the 范围 for the term 'educated person'. In all my experience, 知識分子 was talking about people who had some kind of good education, but not necessarily the smartest people all in the land. Not all doctors are intellectuals, but in my impression of the way the term 知識分子 can be used, ALL doctors are 知識分子. Not all teachers are intellectuals, but they can ALL be considered 知識分子. Not all engineers are intellectuals, but they can ALL be considered 知識分子. Only the elites in these fields are considered 'intellectuals'; therefore I believe that the closest equivalent to '知識分子' is 'educated persons' 更不用说 'intelligentsia'. No way all teachers are members of the intelligentsia (except in jokes). Now, can 知識分子 be used in the more limited sense of 'intellectual' the way it is used in English? I guess so? Maybe? But the point is that '知識分子' isn't just the 'intellectuals'- it's ALL of the educated people as far as I am aware. That's what prompted me to remove 'intellectual' and 'intelligensia' the other day. I think that it may be possible to produce evidence that 知識分子 can be used in the more limited sense of 'intellectual' or the even more limited sense of 'intelligensia', but I currently don't see it: all I see is a mindless tradition of translating '知識分子' to 'intellectual'. 个人意见;也许不对. 'Educated persons' may not even be the best translation- maybe 'knowledge worker' or something like that would be more literal. There's probably a better translation. --Geographyinitiative (talk) 14:57, 3 November 2018 (UTC)

Sometimes it is used that way, but it is also commonly used to mean intellectual for example in books like 《中国知识分子沦亡史》 which talk about only the intelligentsia throughout Chinese history. In any case, we should provide all possible translations, especially in cases where there is no direct equivalence. ---> Tooironic (talk) 01:14, 5 November 2018 (UTC)