Talk:Tayabas

Former province?

I think the previous edit is already correct. Tayabas and Kalilayan are former names, not former provinces. These are the examples of former provinces in the Philippines. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Former_provinces_of_the_Philippines

Aurora and Marinduque are examples of former sub-provinces. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Former_sub-provinces_of_the_Philippines

Examples of former provincial capitals. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Former_provincial_capitals_of_the_Philippines Kali Igba (talk) 04:03, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

@Mar vin kaiser Kali Igba (talk) 04:07, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

@Kali Igba: As far as I understand it, Aurora and Marinduque were not sub-provinces throughout the entire history of Tayabas. There were also times when it was just one big province, similar to the former provinces of Negros, Agusan, Ilocos, Samar, Lanao, etc. --Mar vin kaiser (talk) 04:30, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

@Kali Igba: For example, based on info from Wikipedia, Aurora didn't exist until 1951 when it was made into a sub-province. Before 1951, all the lands of modern Aurora was just part of Tayabas without any distinction. --Mar vin kaiser (talk) 04:33, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

@Mar vin kaiser Citing Wikipedia isnt really that valid, but yes Marinduque and Aurora used to be part of Tayabas. More like it's not really subprovince, just Tayabas. Like Marinduque and Aurora were just as equal as Lucena, Sariaya, or Tiaong that is currently made to a province because idk management issues that a single governor cant handle the entire province that well such as in calamity handling. Well at least thats what the locals (first hand source) told me. Ysrael214 (talk) 05:00, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

@Mar vin kaiser Maybe subprovince is a misnomer, but in current status of Quezon, Marinduque, and Aurora, it makes sense? Ysrael214 (talk) 05:01, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

@Ysrael214: Aurora as a separate entity didn't exist until 1951, based on everything I've read online. here, you'll see that it was called Aurora for the first time in 1951, named after the municipality of "Maria Aurora" which is named after the wife of Manuel Quezon. Before that, the area that is now Aurora was entirely part of Quezon province from 1946-1951. From 1918-1946, the Quezon province was called Tayabas (the name change happened in 1946), and the area that is now Aurora was split between Nueva Vizcaya and Tayabas. From 1905-1918, the entire area of modern Aurora was in Tayabas. Before 1905, one part of Aurora was under Nueva Vizcaya and before 1902, the other part of Aurora was under Nueva Ecija. So, you can see, there really was no entity known as Aurora prior to 1951, and the area of Tayabas changed so many times in history that you can say it's not really 100% what is Quezon today. --Mar vin kaiser (talk) 05:39, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

@Ysrael214: For Marinduque, it seems to have been only part of Tayabas (without a distinction of it being a sub-province) from 1902-1920. --Mar vin kaiser (talk) 05:41, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

@Ysrael214: Oh wait, let me check that info, whether it was called a sub-province before. --Mar vin kaiser (talk) 05:42, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

@Ysrael214: Yeah here, it says that Marinduque is just annexed into Tayabas, without giving it a separate status like a sub-province. --Mar vin kaiser (talk) 05:43, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

@Kali Igba @Mar vin kaiser How do we define Quezon, the province entity that expands and shifts its territory or the territories occupied by said entity? I mean did it become Quezon after some split like Negros -> Negros Occidental / Negros Oriental, or is it just the same province, the name just changed, and despite the change of territories, it's considered as the same province? Did Tayabas stop being Tayabas when Aurora/Marinduque got independent thus Quezon? Ysrael214 (talk) 12:39, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

I think defining it simply as modern Quezon is fine. For example, in other localities, we don't define Tayabas City as a city and its former barrio, Lucena. Or Lucban as a municipality and its former barrio, Sampaloc. I think it is not really necessary to include former areas that have become independent. And also, most available information online describes Tayabas as simply modern Quezon. It is rare to see Tayabas being described as modern Quezon, Aurora, and Marinduque.

Regarding the Kalilayan entry, according to quezon.gov.ph, Kalilayan and also Tayabas are described as former names, not former provinces. https://quezon.gov.ph/history-and-culture/ Kali Igba (talk) 06:08, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

@Kali Igba: We can do both if that's the case. My question to you is, when the province was called "Kalilayan", what area was it covering? --Mar vin kaiser (talk) 06:15, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

southern part Kali Igba (talk) 06:39, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

But it is still being used nowadays to describe the whole province. For example, it appears in the names of some civic organizations. Kali Igba (talk) 06:45, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

@Mar vin kaiser In addition, if you're looking for specific range, I know there's a navigation map attesting it before as Calilayan before it became Tayabas. Maybe that could help Ysrael214 (talk) 07:25, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

@Mar vin kaiser nvm wikipedia shows an animation of the evolution of the province scope Ysrael214 (talk) 08:18, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

According to these sources, not only the southern part was within the scope of Kalilayan.

http://www.aurora.ph/mobile/history.html

https://iskomunidad.upd.edu.ph/index.php/UP_Kalilayan Kali Igba (talk) 06:36, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

The same with Unisan, I think Unisan is best described as the former capital or first capital of Quezon. Kali Igba (talk) 06:49, 21 February 2024 (UTC)