Talk:poes

RFV discussion: October–November 2020

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poes

Rfv-sense "(derogatory) A woman or girl."

Can't recall ever hearing this. Maybe @Lingo Bingo Dingo can? It was added by an IP when the page was created back in 2005. Alexis Jazz (talk) 23:36, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

I thought I had found something: 'Hallo poes, loop jij hier alleen?' but ultimately it refers to the mammal. Though the intention of the title does appear to be to mislead the reader. Alexis Jazz (talk) 23:58, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

I guess this is cited now with things I found coincidentally, though the James Jones cite is from a translated book. Do you agree Lingo Bingo Dingo? Alexis Jazz (talk) 00:46, 27 October 2020 (UTC)

@Alexis Jazz I didn't know it as simplex either, though I have heard it in the compounds pitspoes and stoeipoes. But I think the last two cites are for another definition; one dictionary I checked gave "attractive woman, babe" and to me that seems a better fit for the quotes than a generic derogatory term. The WNT meanwhile puts looze poes specifically under "sly/cunning woman", for which it has only two cites. The WNT also has the definitions "chubby woman or girl" and "whore, slut". A few of these senses given by the WNT are probably outdated. ←₰-→ Lingo ^Bingo _Dingo (talk) 07:43, 27 October 2020 (UTC)

@Lingo Bingo Dingo Chubby, cunning, sly, whore, slut, attractive, that's a lot of variation.. Maybe it's just a generic derogatory term after all? Alexis Jazz (talk) 12:58, 27 October 2020 (UTC)

@Alexis Jazz No, the senses "chubby girl/woman" and "attractive woman" aren't clearly derogatory, no matter how crass or objectifying they be. The sense "sly girl/woman" may not be citable. Finally, some of those meanings are limited to specific regions or periods; "attractive woman" may well be the only one that is still current. Perhaps it developed from the sense "whore". We don't have to copy the WNT blindly, but we should at least consider its evidence. ←₰-→ Lingo ^Bingo _Dingo (talk) 14:19, 27 October 2020 (UTC)

@Lingo Bingo Dingo So what do we do? I think the Catalijn Claes cite (just added) is also for the sly/cunning woman. Need a third though. Alexis Jazz (talk) 10:12, 28 October 2020 (UTC)

@Alexis Jazz No joy on my end for other cites of "sly woman", if nothing is forthcoming you could make that one the general derogatory sense. ←₰-→ Lingo ^Bingo _Dingo (talk) 17:35, 28 October 2020 (UTC)

The Dutch Wiktionary has the sense “(vulgar) a woman”, with two cites, one 18th-century, the other from a contemporary Flemish author. As a compound, there is also snoezepoes, which I think is neither vulgar nor derogatory.  --Lambiam 00:44, 29 October 2020 (UTC)

@Lambiam Blame me for the Dutch Wiktionary entry, never cite wiki. Both cites are also here.

@Lingo Bingo Dingo I don't really know what to do with this, I merged the senses back into a single sense just saying "a woman or girl". There's usually an adjective to describe what kind of woman it's about. (looze, hete, etc) Just poes without an adjective wouldn't be overly clear. (except in Flemish) Alexis Jazz (talk) 05:57, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

Comment: if it's sometimes a derogatory term for a woman/girl but at other times or in other dialects or in other phrases it's not derogatory, this seems like a situation whether either a label like "sometimes derogatory" or else usage notes could clarify matters. - -sche (discuss) 05:33, 1 November 2020 (UTC)

@Lingo Bingo Dingo, -sche Do you think it's okay now? Alexis Jazz (talk) 04:52, 3 November 2020 (UTC)

@Alexis Jazz I think it's a reasonable solution. I think, judging from the WNT's cites, that the obsolete sense "prostitute" may be an exception to the tendency that the word's specific meaning/connotation is indicated by a modifying adjective, but I'll look into that later. ←₰-→ Lingo ^Bingo _Dingo (talk) 16:04, 3 November 2020 (UTC)

RFV passed This can be archived I think. Alexis Jazz (talk) 10:47, 9 November 2020 (UTC)