Talk:rosemary

British pronunciation

The only listed UK pronunciation is /ˈɹəʊzməɹi/. But I have trouble imagining, for example, that that is how most English singers would pronounce it in the folk song Scarborough Fair.

Is it that the UK pronunciation is /ˈɹəʊzməɹi/, unless particularly stressed, with /ˈɹəʊzˌmɛːɹi/ as a stressed pronunciation? Or is it really always /ˈɹəʊzməɹi/?

Pinging @Equinox, Overlordnat1, -sche, in case they have any thoughts about this. Tharthan (talk) 21:06, 3 September 2023 (UTC)

Most British people wouldn’t say rosemary with a secondary stress on the second syllable (and thus an unreduced second syllable) but because of the rhythm of the song, we would in fact stress the second syllable, so you’re right in saying that this is an exception. The version by the British folk band Pentangle is sung with a different rhythm though which means that both the first and third syllables are stressed with the second unstressed[1].

Another strange phenomenon is how when some people turn ‘cambric’ into a three syllable word to fit the meter of the song by saying ‘camb-u-ric’ rather than the more usual ‘ca-ambric’.

In general though I’d say a secondary stress on the second syllable of ‘rosemary’ is only possible in some Northern English and Welsh accents - the sort of people who are at risk of sounding slightly American when saying ‘strawberry’ and who say ‘vegetable(s)’ with all four syllables clearly enunciated. Most people say ‘rosemary’ as almost two syllables ‘rose-mree’. I did find one American who sounded rather English when saying ‘rosemary’ though too[2]Overlordnat1 (talk) 01:38, 5 September 2023 (UTC)

I must be missing something, but I don't see how you could stress this word other than /ˈɹəʊzməɹi/. In fact the famous song, purely because it is a song, might allow something like "rose-MAI-ry" (sorry I'm too lazy to write the IPA). But of course in everyday use, talking about the herb, or the name (my father's sister's name, which I've heard a lot) it's ROSE-m*ry, the * being a schwa. Again, sorry for not IPA'ing, but it seems so obvious. Equinox ◑ 12:59, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

There’s an English Northerner in this video[3] who says it without a schwa, thus making the second syllable longer and more stressed (and with a completely different vowel) than it otherwise would be. Perhaps saying there’s a secondary stress on the second syllable is taking it too far but it’s by no means uncommon for Northern or Welsh people to say it like that and it sounds slightly American when they do. Probably best no to concern ourselves too much with pronunciation on songs though. Overlordnat1 (talk) 14:57, 8 September 2023 (UTC)