Talk:wa

Japanese particle "wa"

I don't know any Japanese, but should "The particle conveys a certain deference to the speaker's wishes and emotions" be "... to the hearer's wishes ..."? Mark314159 23:19, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

Huh? --Anatoli 00:16, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

The speaker would be the one saying "wa", but it doesn't make much sense to use a word to show deference to one's own wishes and emotions. Doesn't it make more sense for the speaker to be expressing deference to the wishes and emotions of the person spoken to, i.e. the hearer? Mark314159 01:49, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

On second thoughts, perhaps it means "conveys a certain deference behind or underlying the speaker's wishes and emotions". The actual wording is confusing, because "deference to X" generally means that one is submitting or yielding to X. Mark314159 01:56, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

The particle doesn't have all these. Please refer to standard Japanese textbooks, reference books. --Anatoli 23:22, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

Do you mean that the Wiktionary entry is wrong? If so, may I suggest you correct it? Mark314159 22:03, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

You meant the 2nd one (わ), not the first one (は)? A better entry is the actual Japanese script entry わ. It's a feminine slightly emotional final particle, it doesn't express deference but sometimes helps to avoid conclusions (ja:wiki: 断定を避ける女性的表現を表す). I'm not a native speaker, happy to discuss if there is some evidence. I don't look after Romaji entries, I think they are useless. Besides, they have to be in synch with the proper Japanese entries. --Anatoli 00:19, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

Yes, the second one:

QUOTE

wa (hiragana わ)

Usage notes

• This particle is mainly used by women.
• The particle conveys a certain deference to the speaker's wishes and emotions.

UNQUOTE

Thanks for the warning about Romaji entries.

Mark314159 01:30, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

Romaji entries are more likely to be created by non-native speakers. IMHO, being ladylike is not necessarily conveying a certain deference. Since ladies may speak in a different voice in Japan, someone jumped to that conclusion. わ is used by women in phrases conveying almost anything, including things completely opposite to deference. --Anatoli 02:02, 18 October 2010 (UTC)