Edits on Dutch pronounciation

Fragment of a discussion from User talk:Rua
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I'm not preferring any variant. There is no such thing as "northern Dutch", "southern Dutch", "Netherlands Dutch" or "Belgian Dutch" to begin with. There are just different regional varieties, and choosing a single particular variety as "the" standard for either the Netherlands or Belgium, like you are suggesting, would be POV. Recommended pronunciations can be included of course, that's not a problem. But what I disagree with is labelling them simply "Netherlands" and such. That's just wrong, but moreover it horribly skews the picture that readers might get. Contrasting "Netherlands" versus "Belgium" gives the impression that the national border is a linguistic border separating these two varieties, which is not true of course. But contrasting "north" and "south" is not much better. What about northwest versus northeast? Or southwest versus southeast? There are big differences in pronunciation there too. We shouldn't be using labels that give an overly simplistic picture of things.

That said, the one thing that all these varieties generally do share, is that they have the same set of phonemes. Whether someone says /ç/, /x/ or /χ/ doesn't matter, anyone anywhere in the Dutch language area would understand them as being the same. Maybe the article w:Diaphoneme would be useful to you.

CodeCat22:51, 28 September 2014

Hi CodeCat, then you would not mind removing the Northern variants and keeping the Southern ones? I do not believe normal users would read the IPA in terms of phonemes - this is certainly not the common practice on Wiktionary - see for example cancer. Hence, most/all people would read this as what are the common and standard ways of pronounciation, and hence excluding the Southern pronounciations remains a pov. To reply on your other point: as you likely know, there is not an official American pronounciation, and in the UK, RP is a recognized practice, rather than a standard. That does not stop contributors from labelling certain IPA's as UK or US. I am equally open to be more precise. But again, let us keep the different IPA's... I also highly recommend not to continue removing IPA's - this is not constructive as long as we do not have a consensus. If need be, we can consult some of the contributors to the English IPA page.

Morgengave (talk)23:11, 28 September 2014

I'm not sure why you think I'm excluding southern pronunciations. I'm not including or excluding any pronunciations at all, I'm just removing misleading information and using a single common phonemic system for Dutch. As I said, labelling pronunciations as "Netherlands" is misleading and POV, especially when they contain features that are only found in a relatively small amount of speakers. We shouldn't be labelling pronunciations unless the label is accurate and neutral. I will continue to remove the labels "Netherlands" and "Belgium" as these are not correct.

CodeCat23:18, 28 September 2014