Macedonian Noun Templates

Fragment of a discussion from User talk:Rua
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I see, so it's not really the same at all. In that case I'll just make separate templates then. Which is more common, the -е/иња type or the -е/а type?

Are there any nouns which have a gender that does not match what you would expect from the last consonant? Slovene has some masculine nouns ending in -o and -a, I believe Russian does as well.

CodeCat21:08, 29 June 2014

The "-e" > "-иња" type is more common than the "-e" > "-a" type, I believe.

Yes, there are nouns whose gender doesn't match what you would expect from the last consonant, such as the feminine nouns ending in a consonant that I have represented in my table. There are indeed masculine nouns in "-o" and "-a" as well. The ones in "-o" are problematic, because in the singular, they take the neuter suffixes (e.g. "татко" > "таткото", "татконо", etc.) whereas in the plural, they have the "-oвци" suffix (e.g. "татко" > "татковци", "татковците", etc.). The ones in "-a", however, can simply use the template for regular feminine "-a" nouns.

Martin123xyz (talk)21:24, 29 June 2014

That's a bit unexpected. Etymologically, the definite article is a separate word, so just like you have in Spanish la mano (feminine word that looks masculine), I would have expected that feminine or neuter-looking words would still take the masculine definite article. But I guess that the Macedonian articles are no longer "felt" as separate words with their own gender anymore, but simply endings that must match the noun in some kind of pattern.

I think for these exceptional nouns we would need separate templates, because of the irregularities you mentioned.

CodeCat21:35, 29 June 2014
 

I've created some templates in Category:Macedonian noun inflection-table templates. I also renamed the old {{mk-infl}} to {{mk-decl-noun-manual}}. It's probably best not to use that template unless it's really needed. I think this should cover most nouns for now?

CodeCat23:15, 29 June 2014

Yes, the article matches the noun's final vowel rather than the gender or number. Thus, "луѓе", which is plural, takes neuter singular suffixes. If you think we need separate templates, fine.

Anyway, I don't know how to use the masculine noun template. When I put the singular stem as the first parameter, the vocative as the second and the plural stem as the third, only the first parameter is used everywhere, so the template produces only wrong tables, as first of all, no masculine noun ending in a consonant has a vocative form identical to the nominative, and second of all, only about a third of masculine nouns simply add "-и" to the singular stem to form the plural. The remaining involve elision, palatalization or the suffix "-ови" and "-еви". That's why for masculine nouns, I'd need to enter three different things. Could you explain to me how to this? Also, have you accounted for the feminine nouns with the "-е" vocative within the code of the template for those with the "-o" vocative?

Martin123xyz (talk)09:38, 30 June 2014