User talk:Angr

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Hi Angr, I saw your note at this entry: "rm unnecessary note—this must be true for hundreds or thousands of Hungarian words, not to mention words in hundreds or thousands of other languages with contrastive vowel length." I'm surprised you found this note unnecessary. When I learn foreign languages, I always appreciate when someone brings such differences into my attention. I don't think these differences are as obvious as you think. Especially, if the student is not aware that there is another similar sounding word with a completely different meaning. --Panda10 (talk) 14:49, 1 October 2014 (UTC)

But surely that sort of thing needs to be taught as part of the entire sound system of the language, not on a word-by-word basis. It would be absurd to have a note like this on every single word that forms a minimal pair with another word with respect to vowel length in Hungarian! And even more so since the vowel qualities of mar and már are different anyway: the former is /mɒr/ and the latter is /maːr/. But even if the vowel qualities were the same, the word entry just isn't the place for that kind of information, because that isn't information about the word per se, it's information about Hungarian phonology in general. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 14:55, 1 October 2014 (UTC)

Czechia and Czech Republic[edit]

Dear Angr, on the Czechia site should be translations of the geographical name "Czechia", because because translations of the political name "Czech Republic" should be on the Czech Republic site. Frequencies of use of 'Czechia' or of the 'Czech Republic' are in this case irrelevant. User [1] alias Dan Polansky is a fanatic enemy of the English word "Czechia" and it is the only reason, that he delete "Czechia" everywhere he can. Translated, Polansky/Yopie is a vandal. Polansky/Yopie/... is a psychically ill person. Ignore him.

On the contrary, you (who shouldn't be posting at all here since you're currently blocked) are a fanatical enemy of the English language. "Czechia" is barely a word of English. The Czech government does not get to dictate English usage. Only native English speakers get to do that, and native English speakers have shown by how they use the two terms that "Czech Republic" is the usual name of the country in English. "Czechia" isn't. Frequencies of use are not irrelevant at all; on the contrary, they're the most important evidence in the question. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 20:28, 4 October 2014 (UTC)
I love the way they started with "Dear Angr", then switched to Czech so they could use their full repertoire of angry insults, attacks and threats without losing anything to translation. I changed the block to a range block of /65, because most IPv6 ISP accounts tend to have private use of just about any IP within that range, so a regular single-IP block tends to be pretty much useless. I did check first, though, that there were no other edits from within that range. Chuck Entz (talk) 22:27, 4 October 2014 (UTC)
OK thanks. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 23:44, 4 October 2014 (UTC)

Two things...[edit]

Hello, Angr. I have two questions for you, if you wouldn't mind answering them.

1. How does one pronounce your username? Up till now, I've been pronouncing it variously as /ɑŋ/, /ɑŋʁ/ and /ɑŋʁ‿ɹ/. But perhaps it's pronounced /æŋ.ɡɚ/ or /eɪŋ.ɡɚ/?

2. Might you be able to shine some light on this topic?

Thanks for reading my message. I look forward to your response. Tharthan (talk) 16:47, 5 October 2014 (UTC)

I pronounce my user name as a homophone of anger, though the homophony is a coincidence. I know that Irish craic comes from English crack, but I don't know the origin of the latter beyond what the entry already says. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 16:55, 5 October 2014 (UTC)


When adding another headword like you did for the ablative, could you include a separate ===Noun=== header above it as well? I know that many of our existing entries don't have this, but I do think we should do it. After all, cordifoliā is really an entirely different word from cordifolia, so we should treat them as such. —CodeCat 22:01, 10 October 2014 (UTC)

Breves in Ancient Greek[edit]

As far as I can tell, the result of the Grease Pit discussion regarding this was for breves to be stripped from grc links, but that we lacked an administrator to make the necessary change to Module:languages/data3/g. As Atelaes is currently absent, and you are an administrator with knowledge of Ancient Greek, will you oblige? ObsequiousNewt (ἔβαζα|ἐτλέλεσα) 19:08, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for fixing the Welsh entries[edit]

Thanks a lot for correcting all those Welsh entries. Sorry for all the incorrect categories; I'll be more careful with those in future. EdwardH (talk) 15:32, 30 October 2014 (UTC)

No problem; editing Wiktionary takes some getting used to! —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 21:07, 30 October 2014 (UTC)


"sc" tends to mean "script" around these parts, so… I would rather avoid that name for something completely unrelated. Keφr 23:27, 1 November 2014 (UTC)

OK. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 23:45, 1 November 2014 (UTC)

There is a Wauja-English Wiktionary[edit]

It's at Regards 23:49, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

That's the list of of Wauja words at the English-language Wiktionary. It's not a Wauja-language dictionary, in which all definitions as well as the entire interface would be in Wauja. If there were a Wauja-language Wiktionary, wau:mapa would be a link to it instead of a red link. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 10:52, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

Harassment by another admin[edit]

Another admin, Kephir, is harassing me. He removed comments I made on another user's talk page, here and here. When I asked him not to do that, he deleted the message on my talk page, claiming it was vandalism here. There are many other instances of harassment of me by this editor. Could you PLEASE get him to stop? Purplebackpack89 22:18, 18 November 2014 (UTC)

Template l[edit]

Hi Angr, I am asking this out of curiosity. I noticed your changes at vág. I think I understand the reason to add {l|hu} to entries that are common with multiple languages. It will jump to the specified language. But what is the significance of adding it to phrases such as vág az esze, mint a borotva, where no other language is expected ever? It just unnecessarily increases the number of templates on a page. --Panda10 (talk) 21:33, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

Using {{l}} tells the HTML code what language the words are written, which is useful for a variety of reasons, such as user-specific formatting (if you want, you can tell your CSS page to put all Hungarian words in green text, or boldface, or blinking) and letting screen readers for the blind know what language they need to be reading in. It's not only about linking to the right section of the page. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 20:20, 24 November 2014 (UTC)
I see. However, the functions you mentioned would be completely useful only if {{l}} would be applied to all linked words in all entries. Otherwise, it remains a partial solution. --Panda10 (talk) 22:01, 24 November 2014 (UTC)
That is the end goal, but it will take a long time. We'll never get there if we don't start, though. —CodeCat 22:46, 24 November 2014 (UTC)

Template:h-prothesis of[edit]

I reverted your edits as a precaution because they caused module errors in 4 entries . Once I looked at other entries, though, I realized what was wrong (missing lang parameters), fixed the 4 entries and restored your edits. You need to update the documentation, though, so contributors aren't left wondering why they're getting an error that says {{{lang}}} isn't a valid language code, when they followed the example exactly. Chuck Entz (talk) 04:46, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

Done. Thanks for your help! —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 13:40, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

Sorbian verbs at Proto-Slavic *vitati[edit]

Did you somehow screw up the ordering of the Sorbian verbs at Proto-Slavic *vitati? You could revert my edit if you want to. --Lo Ximiendo (talk) 22:55, 4 January 2015 (UTC)

The two Sorbian words were reversed, but that wasn't my doing. The page was created that way. All I changed was the Czech word. Thanks for correcting it! —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 23:11, 4 January 2015 (UTC)



Maybe if you wrote in complete sentences, with spaces between your words and using standard spellings, people would understand what you were trying to say. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 10:49, 11 January 2015 (UTC) ipa?

I don't know, sorry, I don't speak Indonesian. My best guess is /ˈbatʃan/. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 20:47, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

Hey![edit] Tharthan (talk) 16:22, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

Got it, thanks. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 19:30, 13 January 2015 (UTC)


Hi, could you do me a favor and create a language module for Proto-Arawak using code arw-pro and have it link to Arawakan languages? Alternative names are Proto-Arawakan and Proto-Maipuran. Thanks for your help!--Victar (talk) 09:32, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

Sorry, I'm not the person to ask. I have no idea how to edit modules. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 10:38, 20 January 2015 (UTC)
OK, no worries. Thanks though. --Victar (talk) 00:04, 21 January 2015 (UTC)
Maybe if you have a moment though, you can help comment on this discussion? Thanks for your time. --Victar (talk) 00:07, 21 January 2015 (UTC)
I don't really have an opinion on that question. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 14:01, 21 January 2015 (UTC)
Only naturally you wouldn't have an opinion about the spelling of Taíno either way, but maybe you can speak to the preference of defaulting to academic sources. --Victar (talk) 17:01, 21 January 2015 (UTC)


You might find that WT:AWB (w:WP:AWB) would speed up the process of merging the Norman entries, for the dialects with relatively few entries. It can be instructed to do (semi)automated text replacement of the headers and templates and such. Jèrriais has so many entries that it would seem wiser to do it by bot; you could ask Renard if he could do that; I think he wrote a bot that merged a lot of Serbo-Croatian entries. - -sche (discuss) 20:12, 25 January 2015 (UTC)

Thanks, but that looks too complicated for me. I don't know how to write code. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 20:15, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
I'm not very good at writing code, either. But AWB doesn't require writing code (though its capabilities are greater if you know a little bit of regex); it's basically an enhanced browser; you just download it and install it and (it has a graphic user interface and you) tell it to make a list of entries in Category:Guernésiais lemmas. Then in the "normal settings" box (in the "options" area... OK, it does have a lot of buttons), tell it to replace ==Guernésiais== with ==Norman==, and {{head|roa-grn| with {{head|nrf|. (But leave out the <nowiki> tags.) Then go over to "start" and start processing the first page on the list; it'll show you a diff of the changes it proposes to make, and you can undo any that don't need doing or make any additional changes that need to be made, and then save the page, and it'll load up the next page from the list. I'm sure there's a more comprehensive walkthrough on Wikipedia. - -sche (discuss) 20:30, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
OK. Do I have to be approved first, or am I automatically approved as an admin? —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 20:34, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
Your name has to appear on Wiktionary:AutoWikiBrowser/CheckPage; I just added it; admins don't need to be approved by any sort of cabal, since it's assumed you know better than to keep hitting "save" if you notice that the program is doing something it shouldn't be doing. :b (The program itself won't actually change a page until you hit "save".) Sorry for the delayed response; I got distracted in real life. - -sche (discuss) 21:18, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
OK, thanks! —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 21:20, 25 January 2015 (UTC)[atous#English[edit]


Thank you .[edit]

I forgot about copyright. So,the copied the word.But now,I know that I should add something more. Thank you Yin May Lwin (talk) 16:59, 18 March 2015 (UTC)

Proto language in cognate list[edit]

I use Proto language to link to attested languages (≥ 1), also sometimes given cognate doesn't have own article. Now i'll be adding Proto language inside the brackets if it's not forbidden. —Игорь Тълкачь 18:52, 18 March 2015 (UTC)

It's not forbidden, but I know there are Wiktionary editors (besides me) who dislike seeing a proto-form listed as a cognate of an attested form. Comparing a proto-form to an attested form is a bit like comparing apples and oranges. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 19:29, 18 March 2015 (UTC)

Your revert at page brony[edit]

Why you reverted the Interwiki link on brony to the german version? --Nin-TD (talk) 15:47, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

A Welsh etymology that needs checking[edit]

The edit comment on this diff doesn't exactly inspire confidence, but it looks like they're in the right ballpark, so I thought it would be better to bring this to the attention of someone who might be able to confirm it or correct it, rather than just reverting it. Chuck Entz (talk) 02:14, 31 March 2015 (UTC)

It looks right to me, especially given the equally old byform py, which even has the right vowel. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 18:51, 31 March 2015 (UTC)


Hey. Can you Irish up the page Flanagan a bit more please? --Sucio green (talk) 10:21, 3 April 2015 (UTC)


Category:Welsh mutated alternative forms showed up in Special:WantedCategories, but we would have to add "mutated alternative forms" as a POS in order to use {{poscatboiler}}, which doesn't look right. Also, this is the only entry to use this, so it seems inconsistent with the practice even in entries for other mutations of tâl. You know far more than I do about this, so I didn't attempt to redo anything, but it does seem rather strange. Chuck Entz (talk) 23:54, 3 April 2015 (UTC)

That's really weird. I created that page automatically by clicking a green link at tâl; apparently if a Welsh lemma is more than one part of speech, then the automatic loader calls the POS "Alternative form". Of course it shouldn't do that, but I have no idea how to fix those automatic loaders. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 06:20, 4 April 2015 (UTC)
The script looks "upwards" to find the part of speech. It has a list of headers that it should ignore (look near the bottom of User:Conrad.Irwin/creation.js) so that it doesn't think that things like "Declension" are a part of speech. But "Alternative forms" is not in that list, so it uses that as the part of speech. The problem is threefold in this case, though. Aside from not realising that "Alternative forms" is not a part of speech, that header normally goes above the POS header rather than below it. Furthermore, in this case the mutation (presumably?) applies to both the noun and the verb, so the new entry should really have both headers. The script can't deal with that. —CodeCat 18:24, 4 April 2015 (UTC)
Well, in this specific case it should only be Noun, since finite verb forms never undergo Nasal mutation, though verbal nouns (i.e. lemma forms of Welsh verbs) do undergo it. But of course in general, the script should at least be able to find the closest POS header (in the case of tâl that would be Verb), rather than Alternative forms. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 18:33, 4 April 2015 (UTC)
I added "Alternative forms" to the list of headers to ignore, so it will now pick "verb". —CodeCat 19:40, 4 April 2015 (UTC)

Your stance on atheism[edit]

I am writing this note to you to hopefully dissuade you from removing "or lack thereof" from the section of ism pertaining to atheism. I am asserting it is you making claims of opinion, employing the fallacy of argumentum ad populum to support it. My position is backed by evidence (definitions in accepted authoritative sources) and logic. Here are three, of many, reasons I am using to counter your position that I am asserting an opinion:

1. The Negative and positive atheism entry from Wikipedia you reference says "is the form of atheism", meaning it is a subset of atheism as a whole. It explains positions within atheism that express varied degrees of confidence in the lack of belief in god(s). The definition "a lack of belief in god(s)" is universally applicable to all forms of atheism and the root definition of being atheist.
2. The definitions of atheism, ideology, doctrine and belief system from authoritative sources, and from within Wiktionary and Wikipedia, individually and as a whole definitively show atheism is not a doctrine, ideology, or belief system. Only the entry on ism asserted this claim.
3. You can not logically assert that "a lack of belief in god(s)", or lack of belief in anything, necessarily or inferentially supports a claim that it indicates an ideology, doctrine or belief system, or that it is a cause of any action or assertion. Any inference of this can be shown to be a misapplication, a conflation, of the term atheism to represent the actions and assertions resulting from (caused by) the ideology, doctrine or belief system of another ism (humanism, secularism, anti-theism, etc.).

FYI, I am just as adamant about this against atheists who make these assertions as I am with everyone else. I will be glad to continue discussing this disagreement if you so desire. You can even move it to my talk page if you do not want to clutter yours.

Of course I'm making claims of opinion, but so are you. Your and Dan's assertions that no form of atheism is an ideology are your opinions. As I said, some forms of atheism go far beyond "a lack of belief in god(s)" and have become the active, sometimes even fervent, belief in the nonexistence of god(s), which in my opinion (but apparently not in yours) makes it an ideology. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 18:26, 4 April 2015 (UTC)

"As I said, some forms of atheism go far beyond "a lack of belief in god(s)". No, some atheists make that claim, but it is inaccurate. It seems accuracy on Wiktionary should have at least some consideration. I have presented hard evidence using authoritative sources and logic that show atheism does not have a doctrine, ideology, or belief system. That is not opinion. Your claim is based solely on the notion that if a bunch of people assert it, even though they are inaccurate, it must be a valid position and merits inclusion in ism without clarification to represent it accurately. You are claiming an argumentum ad populum is sufficient to exclude clarification of the verifiable definition. Using your position I could get a large group of atheists to be very outspoken as Christians, do a lot of stuff in the name of Christianity and get media attention for some amount of time acting as Christians, and be justified in editing the entry for Christian to include a third definition of, "Atheist Christians." Yeah, I know it's ridiculous, it goes against the many contentious definitions of Christian, and it's the position you are taking. I don't think you understand the difference between opinion and definition. If you don't concur please don't just reiterate your position. Please address my claims directly and show they are inaccurate or false. -John Andrew Morrison("talk")

You have not presented "hard evidence using authoritative sources and logic". You have presented your opinion. Your sentence "No, some atheists make that claim, but it is inaccurate" is an opinion. We're a descriptive dictionary and show how words are used by speakers, not how we think they ought to be used. The fact that there are people who describe themselves as atheists and for whom atheism is an active belief in the nonexistence of God means that there is a definition of atheism that does have a doctrine, ideology, and belief system, even if you wish people wouldn't use the word that way and even if you believe it's illogical for them to do so. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 22:20, 4 April 2015 (UTC)

So you claim authoritative sources of definition is not evidence? You don't think logic is valuable? You think allowing a descriptive dictionary to be purposefully inaccurate is OK?

Authoritative sources can claim whatever they like. Just because they say something means a thing doesn't mean that it reflects common usage. Wiktionary is descriptive, therefore it doesn't follow any authority. The highest authority for Wiktionary is always the speakers themselves, and how they use language. —CodeCat 02:36, 5 April 2015 (UTC)

On that point, then, I am a speaker and my position represents a far more common usage than what you claim. Those that use atheism in the way you assert are a small percentage of all atheists, it's just more publicized because it creates controversy. On this basis atheism should be completely removed from the list, but I am happy with "or lack thereof" as it represents this common usage of the term. -John Andrew Morrison("talk")

I don't mind "or lack thereof" as it represents one usage of the term. Whether the nonideological meaning of atheism is more common than the ideological meaning, I'm in no position to say, but it doesn't matter. Both meanings exist, and including "or lack thereof" at -ism covers one of the meanings. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 16:00, 5 April 2015 (UTC)
I think you've touched on what may be a big part of the disconnect here: you're talking about usage among atheists, but atheists are a very small part of the English-speaking population- most of the people who use terms such as -ism and atheist don't know or care what atheists think. The fact that atheist refers to you and is part of your identity doesn't give you any special say in what it means or how it's used. It would be nice if everybody listened to those most directly effected by terms when deciding how to use them, but that's not how usage works in the real world. Chuck Entz (talk) 21:54, 5 April 2015 (UTC)
I am confused by this entire discussion. If there are a CFI-worthy number of references showing that a word is used with a distinct meaning, then we craft a definition that conveys that meaning to the reader. It doesn't matter what community the usage stems from. bd2412 T 22:33, 5 April 2015 (UTC)
It may be that the attestable usage context for a particular definition is narrow. That would be normal for many terms. For example, a lay definition of iron is not the same as a chemist's definition, which is also different from a metallurgist's definition, which is different from a nutritionist's, etc. DCDuring TALK 23:08, 5 April 2015 (UTC)

Proposal to de-sysop/de-checkuser Connel MacKenzie[edit]

Since you participated in the the 2012 vote to de-sysop and de-checkuser Connel MacKenzie, you may wish to participate in the current discussion of this proposal. Cheers! bd2412 T 17:00, 7 April 2015 (UTC)