User talk:Chuck Entz

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Again, welcome! -- Cirt (talk) 05:28, 1 February 2012 (UTC)


What’s the matter? --Romanophile (talk) 04:58, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

As far as I know, we only have lemmas at the "I" spellings, so there's no point in adding it to the translations. That's not to say that we shouldn't have an alt-spelling/form entry for it, but anyone clicking on the "Jesus" link in the translation is going to be disappointed- why waste their time? Chuck Entz (talk) 05:05, 2 January 2015 (UTC)


First of all, thanks for the warnings. I'm not an experienced user on this project but I'm gradually adapting to how things work here; so if I do something wrong, please do not hesitate to correct me.

I copied terms from Wikipedia's annex and created entries about them, each containing an etymology section created through {{confix}}. These phobia-describing terms are not hard to get, since most of them only have two morphemes: -phobia plus an also Greek prefix, leaving solely the task of finding out if the prefix exists and has an actual usage. Also, I always knew these templates add categories to the entries. Whether the criterion used by Wikipedia is the same used by us or not, it seems that reliable sources making use the term are enough to create an entry, since labels such as (rare), (non-standard) etc. can be used to warn the term is not a normally used or widely-accepted one, although certain circumstances allow it to be applied or "invented". - Alumnum (talk) 23:59, 3 January 2015 (UTC)

Nope. See WT:CFI. I'll be very suprised if even half of your phobia entries are still here a month from now. I've begun removing your etymologies, because they're only based on a mechanical separation into parts, and because you've routinely misspelled the header. Chuck Entz (talk) 00:04, 4 January 2015 (UTC)

Pronunciation of "irregardless"[edit]

The current version of the article shows a narrow transcription of the word with sounds which are not the phonemes of English ([ɨ], [ᵻ] are allophones of /ɪ/), and the transcription is in slashes, indicating it shows phonemes, not real speech sounds. I think it should be changed to square brackets. Zaqq (talk) 11:05, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

Re: Recent correction in Latin[edit]

Dear Chuck,

My bad. It was an honest mistake, and I am still only learning Latin. I have contributed several hundred definitions to wiktionary, so one mistake in a thousand is not bad going. I am only human. It is a shame there is not more thanks, than criticism (however constructive it may be), on wikipedia.

Yours sincerely,

Mr. Maxwell Lewis Latham Cert.H.E. (humanitas) with Classical History specialism. (a.k.a. Anglyn)

Rollback on word blasphemy[edit]

Hi Chuck, Please reconsider your rollback on blasphemy. I revised it after checking five dictionaries, and three encyclopedias. Six of these sources are recent, that is published after 2010. I cited two, with quotes (Blasphemy, Meriam Webster (2012), Quote: "great disrespect shown to God or to something holy"; Blasphemy, in The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language (2013), Quote: "Contemptuous or profane speech or action concerning God or a sacred entity.")

In secondary and tertiary literature, there is a difference between God, god and deity. A God is a deity, but a deity is not necessarily a God. A deity can be demigod, non-god, natural object, etc. Please check if after your revert, you have inadvertently returned the page to something with original research and POV, in light of the most widely accepted, predominant meaning of the word blasphemy. RLoutfy (talk) 20:12, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

We don't have the same rules regarding reliable sources or original research that Wikipedia has: if a term is demonstrably in use with a given meaning, it doesn't matter what authoritative references say- we include that term and/or meaning. You can find dozens of uses of the phrase "blasphemy against the gods" (just to give one example) going back at least a century and a half, so the choice of verbiage in other dictionaries' definitions is irrelevant. As for POV, you're the one who's drawing arbitrary lines excluding certain religions- I don't see anything in the semantics of the term that would limit it to monotheism. Chuck Entz (talk) 04:36, 14 January 2015 (UTC)
My concern is WT:NPOV policy, which the blasphemy page is currently violating. The word "God" is not on the page, even though that is the predominant context for the word blasphemy. I suggest we add that context as well, or take our dispute to the tea house.
How about adding 4. Disrespect, contemptuous or profane speech or action concerning God or a sacred entity? RLoutfy (talk) 18:01, 15 January 2015 (UTC)
Your thoughts on above blasphemy page dispute would be appreciated in the Tea house. See: Wiktionary:Tea_room/2015/January#Blasphemy. RLoutfy (talk) 21:58, 17 January 2015 (UTC)


Hi, I wanted to tell you that profanity doesn't always mean that someone or someone swearing by using delicate language that could offend people. I'm pretty sure it can be something other than that like vulgar for example.--HappyLogolover2011 (talk) 23:16, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

Why did you delete my addition of the French female form for Prime Minister?[edit]

In Québec the female form was used while they had a woman Prime minister, however I'm not aware if the form was or has ever been used outside of Canada. -- Sion8 (talk) 02:30, 17 January 2015 (UTC)

Because we don't link to both genders in translation tables, just as we don't link to plurals, or to different tenses for verbs. The idea is that one clicks on the one gender to go to an entry that has the rest of the information. The entry for premier ministre was missing the feminine form, so I added it just now. We apparently don't have an entry for première ministre yet, but I don't know enough about how French entries for feminine forms are formatted to feel comfortable creating it. Chuck Entz (talk) 03:13, 17 January 2015 (UTC)
Actually, for nouns we do link to both genders, because they're considered separate nouns. —CodeCat 03:27, 17 January 2015 (UTC)

horned frog[edit]

It really is used synonymously with horned lizard, at least in Texas for the Texas horned lizard. It is especially because it is a misnomer that it merit an entry in Wiktionary. DCDuring TALK 15:05, 17 January 2015 (UTC)

A barnstar for you![edit]

Original Barnstar Hires.png Barnstar
For all the work you're doing to add entries to topical categories, and include them in more specific categories. —CodeCat 02:02, 18 January 2015 (UTC)

Splitting categories into subcategories[edit]

e.g. the trees and plants. I see how this adds precision; however, is there now a way for me to say "show me all entries that are trees", without having to go through the subcats separately? Equinox 23:06, 19 January 2015 (UTC)

The reason I decided to do this is because there were over 300 entries in the category to start with, and I'm constantly finding more that would go there- there are at least twice that, now, and it could easily be a thousand or more. At some point, a category gets to have too many entries to be useful: going through multiple pages in a category isn't that much different from going through multiple subcategories, except subcategories are at least grouped by some recognizable criteria. There are several of my category names that could probably be improved to make them more meaningful to non-experts, but I still think they're an improvement. Chuck Entz (talk) 23:20, 19 January 2015 (UTC)
Do you think it would be useful to have some kind of general standard for how many entries should be in a topical category, both at a minimum and maximum? —CodeCat 23:32, 19 January 2015 (UTC)
That's really just a limitation of the technology (in terms of retrieval times, or how many to display to a user on one page). I don't see why dictionary categories, like real-world categories, can't be enormous. I just think it would be nice to have a way to retrieve "everything in this category and all of its children". Equinox 23:37, 19 January 2015 (UTC)

Request to Add New Subcategory "LWT" within LDL[edit]

Chuck, these are my thoughts on the matter. Please let me know if it is appropriate to cut-and-paste the comments into the Beer Parlour, or whether I should just link to my own talk page, as I am doing here. Also, please tell me if you think I need to clarify anything.

"Request to Add New Subcategory "LWT" within LDL", URL accessed on 2015-01-19.

Emi-Ireland (talk) 05:24, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

We need to replace brackets by proper templates[edit]

With few exceptions, our entry-to-entry links are more precise if referring to specific language sections instead of the vague multilingual page. The {{l/xx|}} template can do this, but most of our links use double square brackets [[ ]]. I think we need to fix this and make our links more specific. Can bots do this work? I don't know much about them. Maybe if we put warnings in editing pages discouraging users to add the brackets, it would be also heplful. - Alumnum (talk) 06:16, 22 January 2015 (UTC)

While I sort of agree with you, there are tradeoffs: templates add a layer of complexity/overhead that some people dislike. On pages with lots of linked terms, it can actually slow down the loading of the page enough to be a problem. And there's the matter of centralizing things: if something happens to Module:links (a typo, or even an accidental deletion), every use of {{l}} and {{m}} will display a module error, and the diagnostic categories will be useless for weeks after it's fixed. Also, templates take more typing and have more details to keep track of, so there will always be people that would prefer not to use them, and who would resent anything they might perceive as an attempt to pressure them into their use.
As for using a bot: most plain wikilinks go to English sections, but a significant minority don't, and it's hard for a bot to tell the difference in many cases.
None of the technical problems are really an obstacle, but politically, any attempt to change things systematically will be met with opposition- some of it quite vehement. Chuck Entz (talk) 06:57, 22 January 2015 (UTC)
Seems reasonable. Regarding the agreement problem, I understand that the community may not appreciate the idea of pressuring users into doing something they aren't used to, and that's because I thought of bots too. I have a loose idea about how bots work, but I think it is enough if they can be programmed to differentiate between English sections and foreign languages' sections and within the latter, definitions (which are in English) between related terms (which refer to words in the foreign language concerned). - Alumnum (talk) 08:14, 22 January 2015 (UTC)
A less radical approach would be to target the use of {{l}} to those links to non-English, non-Translingual terms on pages that actually had more than one language section now. A bot would be perfect for a task that was so defined. This would give us maximum benefit, minimal performance penalty, minimum need to change behavior, and probably maximum consensus. DCDuring TALK 21:44, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

Chiasma rollback[edit]

Hi, just wanted to ask why you decided to undo this edit:

I thought a link to chi in the etymology would be helful and unobtrusive. Thanks. Attys (talk) 20:50, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

It was the "Etymology 1" part that was the problem. Since anyone can add, remove or rearrange the sections at any time, linking to etmologies is unreliable: Etymology 1 could be Etymology 2 a few minutes from now. Chuck Entz (talk) 20:54, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

re: your profile blurb, phonetics/written alphabets, pain and suffering[edit]

This is not WP relevant, but I thought might be of interest to you personally: At some moment, having studied Korean and then right after exploring Aymara, I was fascinated on how Aymara could be written with Hangul characters better IMHO than with the so far practice of using some concocted variant of Roman (like tt, t', k, kk, etc). Then, conversing with one of the greatest specialists on Aymara linguistics, and quite a brilliant ethnologist on his own right (name escapes at this moment), he mentioned that even better than Hangul is Mongolian, there being some strange semantic parallels even! Different subject, reading this page, it seems you do quite a few deletions. I assume that it's pain that makes people cry, and the fact that you do many, many more corrections than deletions simply doesn't get the credit it deserves, true? Yamaplos (talk) 03:41, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

I'm not too familiar with Aymara, but, in general, Hangul is pretty good at handling all the fairly simple syllable structures, so any language without complex consonant clusters or diphthongs/long vowels fares pretty well. If you tried to use it on some of the languages around the Caucasus or in the Pacific Northwest (e.g.Bella Coola), I think it would get truly ugly in a hurry.
On your last point: I don't feel misunderstood. Most of my patrolling of recent edits really is destructive rather than constructive- by the time I've taken care of all the vandalism and revertable stuff, I don't have much time/energy to work on the salvageable edits. It's not that I take a meat axe to anything that's not perfect, though: if something is more of a judgment call or is okay aside from needing work, I tend to leave it and go on in search of the more obvious problem edits. Chuck Entz (talk) 04:37, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

User:Kephir pulling my chain again[edit]

Kephir (talkcontribsglobal account infodeleted contribsnukeedit filter logpage movesblockblock logactive blocks)

Apparently, it wasn't clear to Kephir that he should stay away from me. He's been edit-warring with me over the categorization of enumeration with the category Category:en:Statistics. When I tried to explain to him why enumeration belongs in that category, he just undid me and deleted comments from his page. Twice. I am 100% certain that enumeration belongs in the statistics category, as part of the field of statistics involves enumerating things, so Kephir edit-warring with me on this is perplexing. The only two explanations I can see for it are 1) he doesn't really understand what statistics means (this might be borne about by his nomination of the probability and statistics categories for merger), or 2) he's just trying to fuck with me yet again. But the fact that he refuses to dialogue on this is troubling, and more evidence of the fact that the project would be better off without him as an administrator. Purplebackpack89 22:37, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

So "he should stay away from [you]" but you're justified in telling him on his talk page that he isn't allowed to interact with you? Equinox 22:42, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
I'm not the one who told him to stay away from me on his talk page. In the thread "PB(&J)P89", other users said it. But you're sidestepping the issue and trying to make this about me, when this is about Kephir's continual harassment of me. Purplebackpack89 22:48, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
No, it's a simple content dispute, with both sides on a hair trigger due to past interactions. Chuck Entz (talk) 22:52, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
...But I can't resolve said content dispute because Kephir disruptively pawns off anything I say on his talk page as vandalism. This wouldn't be a problem if Kephir was actually discussing this; he's currently making Marshawn Lynch look verbose. It wouldn't have happened if Kephir had left articles I edited alone; if my edits need to be monitored (which they don't, really), somebody who's less disruptive than he can do it. And it wouldn't have happened if Kephir hadn't poisoned the well with a series of bad blocks. That is why I think Kephir needs to stay away from me. I don't actively seek out his mainspace contributions and undo them, so there's not really a lot more staying away from him I need to do. Purplebackpack89 22:59, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
It's not a neutral dispute between two equally valuable parties. It is clear from past interactions that you see yourself as some infallible godlike figure — you have never admitted to making a mistake, unlike most of us — and anybody's disagreement with you is taken to be some kind of wiki-crime that must be punished with removal of rights, etc. The fact is that sometimes you are wrong or misguided. But I might as well try arguing with David Koresh. Equinox 08:14, 1 February 2015 (UTC)
I think you're hyperbolizing, Equinox. I also think you're ignoring the problem in this case. The problem here is that Kephir treated my edits (as he's apparently treating all my edits nowadays) as bad-faith edits that should be reverted without explanation. That's not acceptable. And don't say I didn't give any reason for why my edits should be the way they are; look at the subthread below (and, since you're an admin, you can also see the comments I made on Kephir's talk page that he deleted). And why's there some pervasive need to admit anything? Isn't just not editing the page to favor my way of looking at things enough? Purplebackpack89 15:36, 1 February 2015 (UTC)
  • 1) I don't remember Kephir admitting mistakes, but maybe memory fails me on this. 2) Kephir's undo at enumeration lacking meaningful edit summary was poor form, as was his subsequent removal of comments from his talk page. --Dan Polansky (talk) 15:50, 1 February 2015 (UTC)
  • 3) Yes, Purperbackpack89 is sometimes wrong. He also shows capacity for adjustment, as he did with his signature. --Dan Polansky (talk) 15:51, 1 February 2015 (UTC)

Argument in favor of enumeration being in Category:en:Statistics[edit]

Statistics aren't just all rates and averages and stuff like that, sometimes they are counts. The process of tabulating head-count statistics is enumeration. Ergo, enumeration should be in Category:en:Statistics. Purplebackpack89 23:09, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Although I can see room for disagreement on whether the concept of enumeration is within the realm of statistics, I think the categorization should go at enumerate, rather than at enumeration, if it should be placed anywhere. As for the merits: even though an enumeration produces statistics, it doesn't actually do anything statistical with them, so I see Kephir's point. It's really a form of measurement, like determining the weight, length, width, or height of something. Of course it's common practice to follow enumeration with statistical analysis, but then, that's also true of sports- there's nothing statistical about a tackle, but play-by-play announcers may very well discuss the statistical background or results of it. Chuck Entz (talk) 23:14, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
Why didn't User:Kephir himself make that argument, and make it hours ago? Also, I think that tackles and free throws and field-goal percentage and quarterback rating should eventually be added to the category Category:en:Sports statistics when it is created. Purplebackpack89 23:21, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

diuca speculifera[edit]

Hi dear Chuck Entz, diuca speculifera isn't "buzulkuşu"! 88.XXX.XXX.XXX huge liar! --123snake45 (talk) 00:58, 1 February 2015 (UTC)

Why I did not fix that manually[edit]

Apperantly these seven edits do not solve the problem, and thus I have not performed them: [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] [8]. --kc_kennylau (talk) 11:12, 4 February 2015 (UTC)

No, but posting a description of the problem to the Grease pit would be far more effective, and you can link to diffs showing how it looked before they were corrected without leaving module errors in seven entries.Chuck Entz (talk) 13:45, 4 February 2015 (UTC)

It is a long time since but ...[edit]

Hi, I've just checked in here after a long absence and I noticed this. I am not up to speed with the requirements of this project but I have a certain degree of expertise when it comes to caste claims etc, which is pretty much my specialism on English Wikipedia. I really do not understand how a bunch of names, which bear no particular relation to anything in particular, can be deemed acceptable. Despite appearances, the list consists mostly of names that are used by a variety of caste communities and not necessarily even those connected to the Kshatriya varna (ie: one of the four fundamental divisions in Vedic Hindu society). Really, the list is a nonsense at worst, highly misleading at best.

What am I missing? Can anyone say anything here? Could I add my own last name to the list with impunity? - Sitush (talk) 03:13, 8 February 2015 (UTC)

Appendices such as this one which have been transferred from Wikipedia are a recurring problem. Yes, there's no doubt a great deal of nonsense in this page, but you can't just wipe it out in one edit all on your own. The proper thing to do is nominate it for deletion by adding the template {{rfd}}, then click on the "+" the template provides to start a discussion on the Requests for deletion page. You should explain it in such a way that someone without your expertise can see that it's not worth keeping, in spite of the high amount of interest in it by anonymous editors. Chuck Entz (talk) 03:32, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
Ha! Thanks for the explanation. Anonymous editors fiddling with caste cruft are prolific in most WMF projects. It might be easier to prove a point by adding my own name and see how long it stays there. Explaining to the unacquainted why it is that the appendix is useless would require a lengthy essay, beginning with concepts such as why many Indian contributors mistakenly think that a name is a marker of a caste, which in fact has obvious problems because, for example, Helen Reddy is not connected to the Reddy caste. Doubtless, though, there is some equivalent here to this. - Sitush (talk) 08:48, 8 February 2015 (UTC)


Basically, you asked for it. Cheers! bd2412 T 20:41, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

Thank you[edit]

I appreciate the message you left on my page, i am reading the materials to better acquaint me with the Wiktionary platform hence to improve my contributions on here.Flixtey (talk) 18:45, 16 February 2015 (UTC)


Please explain edit revert. DGtal (talk) 20:09, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

Interwikis for entries have to be exactly the same spelling. I know that Hebrew Wiktionary has their entries arranged differently, but, as I understand it, that's the way things work here. Our interwiki bot doesn't run as often as it should, but when it does, it's going to remove such interwikis when it finds them. Feel free to ask about this at the Information desk or the Beer parlour- there's always the possibility my understanding is out of date. Chuck Entz (talk) 01:43, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

Revert on mum's the word[edit]

Hi, I was wondering if you could explain your recent revert of my edit to mum's the word. I had added the section link to the specific etymology of mum that was being referred to. Without the section, the link just goes to the page for mum, which is, of course, less focused. I'm a bit new to Wiktionary—are section links not normally used in the term template? Or is it something else entirely? Thanks. –Boomur [colloquia] 22:09, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

Yes. Because anyone can add, delete, and/or rearrange the Etymology sections at any time, you can't really depend on Etymology 3 being the same Etymology 3 you meant to link to. Chuck Entz (talk) 02:37, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
I understand, though it seems a bit silly that there's no workaround. How about at least linking to #English? –Boomur [colloquia] 03:17, 25 February 2015 (UTC)


Hi. The Italien word is pustola [9].

Yes, but has pustula never been used in Italian by anyone? I suspect it may be an alternate or obsolete form, though I'll leave that to the people at Requests for verification. Chuck Entz (talk) 01:41, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

them -ids[edit]

When I did all those zoology -ids (which have probably done more than anything else, except possibly the minerals, to help me chase SemperBlotto's edit count) I thought they'd sit there for years unedited by anyone. It's rather fun to see them come up in my watchlist when you go through doing the categories! I wonder if there is an -id-alike for plants, other than the occasional "genus name without capitals means a plant in that genus". Equinox 01:49, 28 February 2015 (UTC)