Reconstruction talk:Proto-Japonic/nis-a-

Wrong derivation -- this isn't an adjective, it's a verb stem

I'm reworking the entry adding {{rfc}} (not sure how best to rework). As reflected in modern JA, 偽 (nise) is the noun stem of verb 似せる (niseru, “to imitate, to counterfeit”) from earlier 下二段 verb 似す, transitive / causative counterpart to intransitive and 上一段 verb 似る (niru, “to resemble, to look like”).

<speculation>上一段 is a defective verb paradigm that suggests prehistoric (i.e. before writing) form nu, which is postulated by Frellesvig and others as an ancient copula. If we postulate this relationship, then niru would possibly be derivable as to be like something, and nisu would be to make something be like something else, as mediopassive and causative derivations of root form nu meaning to be.</speculation>

Speculation aside, this is definitely a verb stem and not an adjective. ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │^{Tala við mig} 01:12, 20 November 2019 (UTC)

• Updated above to just "adding rfc".

By way of reference, Japanese 似せる (niseru) is reflected by RYU verb nishun, and Japanese 偽 (nise) is reflected by RYU noun nishī. No adjectives in evidence. ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │^{Tala við mig} 01:24, 20 November 2019 (UTC)

In addition, Japanese 偽 (nise) as a kinda-sorta adjective (more like a verb-derived compounding element) isn't attested until 1430, quite late for anything inherited from Proto-Japonic. Underlying verb nisu (terminal / predicative), nise- (verb stem for other conjugating forms) is attested from 720.

Considering current research about the derivation of lower bigrade verbs, this reconstruction as nisay is problematic. ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │^{Tala við mig} 23:34, 19 November 2021 (UTC)