Talk:agor'

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The following information passed a request for deletion.

This discussion is no longer live and is left here as an archive. Please do not modify this conversation, but feel free to discuss its conclusions.


mund', amig', agor'[edit]

These are poetical elisions. And they don't have apostrophes in the original texts, they just concatenate the following word (although they usually have in transcriptions). Ungoliant MMDCCLXIV 04:03, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

Since we have almost no Portuguese speakers here, you might have to explain a bit more, link to texts online, etc. Mglovesfun (talk) 11:11, 14 January 2012 (UTC)
Fair enough. These aren't actual words in Old Portuguese, they are just the words mundo, amigo, agora with the last vowel removed so the line has the correct amount of syllables. (occurrence of mund') (occurence of mundo). Notice that mund' only occurs when the next letter is a vowel, but mundo occurs anywhere.
Here is an example in the original source (E codex of w:Cantigas de Santa Maria), the 9th line of the left column here: do que o mund' á de salvar. Instead of mund' á it is written mũda.
Although poetical elisions are common in Old Portuguese texts (after all, most texts which survived are lyric poetry), if we were to include them in the Wiktionary we would need an extra entry for the elided form of every word which ends with a vowel. Ungoliant MMDCCLXIV 14:24, 14 January 2012 (UTC)
I can't speak for Portuguese, but poetical elisions are abundant in German, and if we included them all we'd easily have one or two poetical forms of every German word in existence. That said, delete. -- Liliana 21:58, 14 January 2012 (UTC)
  • Keep, as no reasons for deletion relating to CFI have been given. As regards the argument with the large number of what you call "poetical elisions" (a rare term per google books:"poetical elision"), consider the large number of obsolete spellings that Wiktionary is about to include: for "knowledge", there is cnaulage, cnoulech, knauleche, knaulege, knaulach, knaulage, knawlache, knawlage, kneuelich, kneuleche, kneuliche, knoleche, knolege, knoleige, knolych, knouelache, knouelech, knouelich, knoulecche, knoulegge, knouliche, knowlache, knowlage, knowleche, knowledg, knowlege, knowlesche, knowliche, knowlych, knowlech. --Dan Polansky 09:00, 18 January 2012 (UTC)
They aren't obsolete spellings; they are just terms with the last vowel removed for poetical purposes. This occurs in other languages, I've seen it at least in Esperanto and Latin. In the example given above, the writer needed the line to have 8 syllables, so instead of writing "do que o mun.do á de sal.var", he wrote "do que o mun.dá de sal.var". They aren't specific spellings like "kneuelich" or "knolych", it can be applied to any word which ends in a vowel. Ungoliant MMDCCLXIV 15:54, 18 January 2012 (UTC)
I do think these should be kept by analogy with English elided forms like needin', wantin'. Attestation is a separate issue; RFV remains an option if these forms aren't actually in use. Though that could get a bit messy, as trying to get hold of the original texts with no modernization might be tricky, or very tricky. Mglovesfun (talk) 17:12, 20 January 2012 (UTC)
Those are eye dialects; and their elision is phonetic not poetical. Facsimiles of the entire E and To codices of the w:Cantigas de Santa Maria are available at [1] Ungoliant MMDCCLXIV 17:27, 20 January 2012 (UTC)
Kept as no consensus. — Ungoliant (Falai) 01:16, 13 August 2012 (UTC)