User talk:Per utramque cavernam

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  1. 2012-2016 (Fsojic)
  2. 2017 (Barytonesis)
  3. 2017-2018 (Per utramque cavernam)

To worth all and sundry[edit]

Dear Per utramque cavernam, the edit made in gnawing(adjective) by 2405:205:620C:9B53:F4F9:4B76:7D6F:3132 has nothing amiss in them, rather is outstanding as a scarce register of English- and given the breadth of freedom in Wiktionary (which it itself asks us have), all kinds of edits made should be worthied. Others may lack some knowledge that one has, and if one is hindered thus for no foul writing whatsoever, then Wiktionary is but meaningless. So kindly do unwork what you have shredded.—This comment was unsigned.

There's a reason that register is scarce: no one has talked that way in hundreds of years, and anyone who does so now sounds like a silly caricature of a pompous buffoon. We don't want to teach people things that will get them laughed at for no reason. Please stop. Chuck Entz (talk) 12:48, 10 September 2018 (UTC)

FWOTD stuff[edit]

I like the new organisation scheme. There are some mistakes, but it streamlines things a bit more. I don't know how interested you are in helping out with it, but I would definitely welcome more involvement from other people. Also @Lingo Bingo Dingo, are you interested in setting up a focus week (or anything else?) —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 22:59, 25 June 2018 (UTC)

@Metaknowledge: Hi. I'm interested but I'm trying to limit the time I spend on Wiktionary, so I prefer not to get too involved right now. Per utramque cavernam 21:04, 26 June 2018 (UTC)
Ah, the age-old struggle... —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 22:46, 26 June 2018 (UTC)
@Metaknowledge: I've sorted out the nominations of the remaining years according to that "ready/not ready" scheme. I think it's a start, but it probably could be improved further. How do you pick words you're going to feature? Do you (try to) do a rotation by continent? Language family? Dead languages vs. living languages? Part of speech? Per utramque cavernam 13:49, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
I rotate according to the following scheme: national European language, minority or extinct European-area language, non-European language. It reflects our relative strengths at Wiktionary for the most part, although the second one is always the hardest, and I'd like to do more of the third one if possible. I also don't repeat any language in a month, don't feature more than one constructed language per month, and don't put similar languages (e.g. German and Middle High German) too close to one another. That's pretty much it. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 17:12, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
@Metaknowledge: I've sorted the nominations according to that three-fold scheme; I can see now that there are very few nominations for the second type indeed. I didn't know what to do with constructed languages, so I put them in a fourth category. Per utramque cavernam 19:02, 12 July 2018 (UTC)
I generally stretch the second type, just because there's never enough to fill it unless you bend the guidelines somewhat. And if our coverage gets better, it would be appropriate to decrease the European percentage that's featured; right now, the non-European slot is almost all Asian languages, which is also a problem. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 19:32, 12 July 2018 (UTC)
Oh, and while you're at it, please just remove the nominees that have already been set for a day. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 19:51, 12 July 2018 (UTC)
@Metaknowledge: All right; I was wondering if maybe we should have a nominations archive similar to Wiktionary:Word of the day/Nominations/Archive 2018, but I guess it's not that important. I've thus removed as many as I could find, but it's pretty taxing to navigate between the archive pages and the nomination / focus week pages though.
On a related note, do you think we could merge the latter two (standard nominations and focus week nominations, I mean), or would it become too long? Per utramque cavernam 21:26, 12 July 2018 (UTC)
We kept them separate to prevent it from being too unwieldy to edit. The focus week noms also often sit around for a long time, because it can be hard to put a good focus week together. Also, I sometimes leave old focus week noms that have been set to remind me of which languages to look at to create it again (like Australian languages). On that note, it would be really helpful to identify if we have any focus weeks ready to run. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 23:20, 12 July 2018 (UTC)
All right, I'll leave it there then. I'm trying to sort it out a bit too.
Would you consider Wiktionary:Foreign_Word_of_the_Day/Focus_weeks#The_Middle_Ages ready, or is too Europe-centric? Per utramque cavernam 11:18, 13 July 2018 (UTC)
@Metaknowledge The problem I run into with focus weeks is that I don't know enough about the phonology of a sufficient number of languages. So I can't prepare a full week with a different language on each day. ←₰-→ Lingo Bingo Dingo (talk) 14:42, 27 June 2018 (UTC)
@Lingo Bingo Dingo: That's why a big part of the job is pinging people to do the things you can't. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 19:51, 27 June 2018 (UTC)

Linguistic phenomenon of the week/month[edit]

Take a look at "Words Frequently Sought" in the alt.usage.english FAQ. Equinox 15:40, 11 July 2018 (UTC)

BTW, regarding the red link on your user page: I suspect that it's a "negative-polarity" item, not a negative "polarity item". Equinox 20:16, 19 July 2018 (UTC)
@Equinox: I think you're right, but at the same time Wikipedia has named its article "polarity item". Maybe I shouldn't give much weight to that?
Thanks for the link by the way. I'm leaving this aside for now, as I'm focusing on my endlessly growing French list. (pretty annoying: every time I create an entry, I stumble upon another red link...) Per utramque cavernam 20:27, 19 July 2018 (UTC)


My understanding of the noncognate-template is that it is used to show that two items are actually unrelated etymologically despite their shape and meaning suggesting the opposite, like in кӑмпа. In ilbiz, the items are indeed related, but not cognate. Allahverdi Verdizade (talk) 20:45, 11 July 2018 (UTC)

@Allahverdi Verdizade: Good point. There's also {{m+}}, but it doesn't create a link to the Wikipedia article. Per utramque cavernam 11:46, 12 July 2018 (UTC)

something to write home about[edit]

If nothing to write home about is a negative polarity item, than so is something to write home about, anything to write home about, and others like nothing worth writing home about. Not every negative polarity item is worthy of inclusion either. I've always been a believer in trying to find the core of an idiom and use redirects from typical collocations of the core to get people to the core so they could be made to see multiple usage examples and perhaps usage notes and link to relevant WP articles. DCDuring (talk) 16:13, 17 July 2018 (UTC)

@DCDuring: Yes, I agree; if I didn't categorise something to write home about, it's simply because I've missed it. But I don't know what we could use as a lemma: to write home about is a bit strange, no? worth writing home about would be a bit better already. Per utramque cavernam 07:17, 28 July 2018 (UTC)
I'm a bit troubled about the borders of membership in the category. For example, cent and farthing and sou#French have a meaning "paltry amount of money", which is often a 'negative polarity item' ("NPI"). We probably already have red cent as an NPI. Why not the others? I wonder what the name is of a category of terms that includes these and similar terms, all of which display this occasional usa as an NPI. Even the words one and, perhaps, two are used as NPIs in addition to being indicators that expressions of which they are a part are possibly NPIs. Since these uses are very common, it seems wrong to exclude the terms merely because they represent a small portion of the total use of the term (eg, one, farthing, cent). That is why an Appendix on the subject seems like a better tool than a category, especially one that doesn't have an explanation of inclusion/exclusion criteria. DCDuring (talk) 16:37, 28 July 2018 (UTC)
@DCDuring: Yes, I've also wondered about cases such as one or sou. And yes, maybe an appendix would be better suited to this than a category. But I've found that the category is a useful tool to gather the raw materials for an appendix. That's what happened with Appendix:French doublets, which is a much better way of presenting doublets than CAT:French doublets, but which would have taken a lot more time to create without the latter. Per utramque cavernam 11:15, 2 August 2018 (UTC)
A problem with using categories as scaffolding to build Appendices is that there never seems to be a time to remove the scaffolding. This is the case with Category:French doublets. Also, a term can have an arbitrarily large number of linguistically interesting features, many of them specific to one or a few of the definitions. How does one maintain links from the entry to all the appendices about such features, especially definition-specific ones, without obscuring the definitions? DCDuring (talk) 11:32, 2 August 2018 (UTC)

revenir à soi & descendants[edit]

Dear FX (@Per utramque cavernam).

  • 1. I have this semantic loan from revenir à soi or revenir à moi (for greek συνέρχομαι second sense. Is it of any interest to you?
  • 2. About the look of descendants: some thoughts: I've been puzzled with indent or seems as though a lang with an arrow derives from an language-not-borrowed which is just above it. What if every language had a prefix: a monospace symbol which would create equal indent-level?
  • Xxxx: word
  • Xxxx: word
    • Xxxx: word
      • Xxxx: word
  • Xxxx: word
  • Xxxx: word

I've tried with ... ellipsis at περίοδος#Descendants

... Greek: περίοδος (períodos)
Medieval Latin: periodus
German: Periode
Middle French: periode
... French: période
Middle English: periode
... English: period

Are these symbols international standards? → ← ↑ ⇒ ? But what would an ignorans understand without explanation?
→ = something went from point 1 to point 2, directly (inherit)
↷ = something hopped from point 1 and landed on point 2 (borrow)

→ Xxxx: word
↷ Xxxx: word
→ Xxxx: word
↷ Xxxx: word
↷ Xxxx: word

sarri.greek (talk) 08:00, 23 July 2018 (UTC)


Please check. I suspect this is our bad Thai IP editor using a French IP, but I'm not good enough at the languages to really patrol their edits. Thanks! Chuck Entz (talk) 13:24, 23 July 2018 (UTC)

Regarding Trowel in wikitionary[edit]

Thanks for your suggestionsGuglani (talk) 10:34, 31 July 2018 (UTC)

@Guglani: You're welcome! Per utramque cavernam 13:02, 31 July 2018 (UTC)
@utramque:But can you explain reason of rollback . In what way creation of link in punjabi not proper.Guglani (talk) 15:41, 31 July 2018 (UTC)
You added an invalid interwiki link (these are now automatic anyway) - maybe you meant to add a translation? SemperBlotto (talk) 15:46, 31 July 2018 (UTC)
@Guglani: Hi again. Interwiki links such as [[pa:ਕਾਂਡੀ]] aren't meant for translations (that's what the translation table is for, which you've already used correctly), but for linking to entries bearing the exact same title in other Wiktionaries.
For example, on the trowel entry, you'd have to put [[pa:trowel]], which will link to pa:trowel (but I see that you don't have an entry for it yet); it's only on the ਕਾਂਡੀ entry that you'd put [[pa:ਕਾਂਡੀ]].
But as SemperBlotto is saying above, all this interwiki stuff is now done automatically, so you don't have to worry about it (notice that it already works at ਕਾਂਡੀ, which links to pa:ਕਾਂਡੀ without us needing to write [[pa:ਕਾਂਡੀ]] in the wikitext).
In fact, I suggest you create an entry for trowel on the Punjabi dictionary (at pa:trowel), then come back here to check. You'll be able to see a link. Per utramque cavernam 15:53, 31 July 2018 (UTC)
By the way, does ਕਾਂਡੀ have another sense beside "trowel"? It looks like it judging from pa:ਕਾਂਡੀ. I've readded your quotes, could you translate them? Thanks! Per utramque cavernam 16:00, 31 July 2018 (UTC)

bonte hond & pétomane[edit]

To clarify the revert, als doesn't introduce a simile here, but functions identically to as in known as. So literally "known as the bruised dog", not "known/famous like the bruised dog". Could you by the way take a look at the pronunciation at pétomane? ←₰-→ Lingo Bingo Dingo (talk) 14:48, 14 August 2018 (UTC)

@Lingo Bingo Dingo: Ok, thanks for the explanation! (by the way, if you feel like adding new items to CAT:Dutch similes, be my guest).
About pétomane, I('d) pronounce it that way, but fr.wikt says it's a closed /o/ (I don't know why). In doubt, I've put both pronunciations. Per utramque cavernam 14:56, 14 August 2018 (UTC)

Category:English verbs with placeholder it[edit]

Hey. I think I found another one of your projects that you started and soon forgot about and left a lot of crap to cleanup (not a criticism, I do it all the time too). Why did you create Category:English verbs with placeholder it when we had a perfectly good Category:English terms with placeholder "it"? Obviously, having both cats is ridiculous - my advice is stick to one and avoid a boring discussion about which name sounds better. --XY3999 (talk) 23:50, 20 August 2018 (UTC)

@XY3999: I'm not fond of the old category, as it seems to me to gather pretty different things: impersonal verbs ({{m|en|it's raining, which, as a phrasebook entry, shouldn't even be in the main space imo), and transitive verbs with dummy pronouns (leg it, etc.). But I dunno, I wasn't too convinced by what I set off to do either. Per utramque cavernam 11:55, 24 August 2018 (UTC)

Citations of Bibhorr formula[edit]

here a the links to the original quotes from the book: —This unsigned comment was added by Asligunda (talkcontribs).

taper le pot de[edit]

Hi there. Could you look at the anon's other French edits please. I haven't a clue. SemperBlotto (talk) 13:00, 2 September 2018 (UTC)

@SemperBlotto: Hi. There was only this one, which is all right. But this Thai IP is really problematic, and Surjection, Chuck Entz and I revert most of his contributions on sight. I think you should do the same.
Another thing: peeling the onion is given a =Verb= header, which seems wrong. Didn't you treat a similar case recently? Per utramque cavernam 14:26, 2 September 2018 (UTC)
My impression is of someone who loves contributing so much that they'll use any excuse to create or alter an entry, ranging from necessary fixes to adding unnecessary templates and labels or just plain making stuff up. The mixture of good, bad, and merely annoying edits in multiple languages makes them really hard for me to patrol. In the past month, a spike in similar edits from French Free SAS IPs coinciding with a lack of the Thai IP edits leads me to think they they may have been on vacation for a few weeks. At any rate, they're back now. Chuck Entz (talk) 15:51, 2 September 2018 (UTC)


Hello. Please do not revert edits unless you have a reason to do so, just like you did on the word 'letterbox'. If you have any religious beliefs or you are a race offended by this, then Wiktionary isn't the place to express so. Thank you. CrayonS (talk) 20:17, 3 September 2018 (UTC)

Please try to help in the future! Thank you. CrayonS (talk) 20:17, 3 September 2018 (UTC)

текст об Якутске[edit]


To the Russian speakers out there (@Atitarev, Stephen G. Brown, Guldrelokk, Fay Freak): could I ask you for a big favor?

I've written a short (ahem, I realise it's quite a bit longer than I thought...) text in Russian, which I've posted just below. Based on that, I'm supposed to make a presentation in class later on. However, I'm afraid it's riddled with errors, for which I apologise in advance – I just hope they're not too horrendous.

So, could I ask you guys to look it over and correct any grammatical mistakes you might find?

I know it's very basic Russian, and it's quite repetitive too, but we're not supposed to use any fancy words or syntax, as our active vocabulary and grammar are very limited still. The purpose of the course is to get us talking. That being said, I'm welcome to all suggestions for improvement.

Also, don't hesitate to tell me if I got some of my facts wrong!

Спасибо большое. Per utramque cavernam 23:01, 10 October 2018 (UTC)

Я решил вам говорить об Якутске. Этот город – расположенный пять тысяч километров в востоке Москвы, и четыресто пятьдесят километров в юге северного полярного круга. Якутск – столица и самый большой город в Республике Сахе, и Якутие. Имя города и республики происходит от имени народа Якутов.

Республика Саха – самая большая провинция России, и она почти так большая, как Индиа. Более того, тут есть очень мало людей – меньше одного миллиона жителей. Поэтому плотность населения очень низкая (низка?). Но тристо тысяч людей живут в Якутске – то есть один человек от трёх из Республики Сахи.

Якутск основал исследователь Пётр Бекетов в тысяча шестьсот тридцать втором году. Сначала, Якутск был маленький острог. Назвали его Ленский Острог, потому что он на берегу реки Лени. Лена – пятая самая большая река в мире, и одиннадцатая самая длинная река – длина её четыре тысячи четыресто километров. Её исток рядом озера Байкала, и её устье – на берегу северного ледовитого океана.

Но Лена выступил из берегов в тысяча шестьсот сорок втором году, и это заставила людей искать другое место. Они построили второго острог рядом первого. Недавно был ещё несколько остатков второго острога, например деревянная башня. К сожелению, башню разрушил пожар в две тысячи втором году. Но восстановили острог.

Якутск быстро становилься центром этого района, и изпользовался как база для колонизации восточной Сибиря. Оттуда начинались экспедиции в юг и восток. И сейчас ещё Якутск – экономический, политический и культурный центр Якутии. Её положение на берегу Лены делает её важным портом.

По-моему Якутск интересный, потому что это самый холодный большой город в мире, с Норильском. В самом деле, средная температура зимой – минус тридьцать пять градусов. Температуры минус пятьдесят градусов часто бывают, и температура минус шестьдесят градусов уже случилась. Никогда не была температура больше нуль градус в декябре, январе и феврале. И средная температура на польный год – минус девять градусов. В самом деле, надо знать, что Якутск расположенный рядом северного полюса холода. Села Оймиакон и Верхоянск, которые имеют рекорд холода, расположенные около тысячи километров далеко. К счастью, воздух сухой. Поэтому эти температуры более терпимые. Более того, летом часто бывает очень жарко 8 плюс тридцать градусов, потому что тут – континентальный климат.

Из-за этих экстремальних температур, у Якутска есть несколько особенности. Это самый большой город построенный на вечную мерзлоту, то есть всегда замёрзшая почва. Чтобы жара зданий почву не таяла, то что может быть опасно зданиям, здания строются над бетонными сваями (на бетонные сваи?). Но благодаря вечной мерзлоты мы сохранили трупы мамонтов. Поэтому в Якутске есть музей мамонта.

Кроме того, перед Лену нет моста, и только одно круглогодичное средство есть чтобы переходить реку – вертолёт. Летом, надо садиться на паром; зимой, можно водить машину над лётом, и Лена становиться настоящая дорога. Некоторые люди думают, что надо построить мост, другие тоннель, но конкретного проекта ещё нет. Многие боются, что это делать – экономическо неинтересно.

Более того, туда ехать на поездом не возможно. Самой близкий вокзал в Томмоте, который находится далеко, четыресто километров.

Но у Якутска аэропорт есть, который изпользуют авиакомпании чтобы пробовать умение и сопротивление своих самолётов в холодных обстоятельствах.

Несмотря на эту трудную ситуацию, Якутск – настоящий город. Большие здание и институты есть: преобрежанский собор, театр имени А. С. Пушкина, театр имени П. А. Ойунского, опера, спортивный комплекс, консерватория, и так далее. В городе тоже есть Северо-Восточный федеральный университет имени М. К. Аммосова (называемый Якутский государственный университет имени М. К. Аммосова раньше, и основанный в тысяча девятьсот пятьдесят шестом году).

Почему такой большой город находиться в таком суровом климате? Может быть, из-за прекрасного природного окружения? Наверно. Но думаю, что другая причина есть: в Республике Сахе есть много золота и алмазов.

Avoiding stylistic changes:
Я решил рассказать вам о Якутске. Этот город расположен в пяти тысячах километров к востоку от Москвы, и четырёхстах пятидесяти километрах к югу от Северного полярного круга. Якутск – столица и самый большой город в Республике Саха (Якутии). Имя города и республики происходит от имени народа якутов.
Республика Саха – самый большой регион России; она почти такая же большая, как Индия. Кроме того, тут очень мало людей – меньше одного миллиона жителей. Поэтому плотность населения очень низкая/низка. Но триста тысяч человек живут в Якутске – то есть каждый третий в Республике Саха.
Якутск основал исследователь Пётр Бекетов в тысяча шестьсот тридцать втором году. Сначала Якутск был маленьким острогом. Назвали его Ленский острог, потому что он стоял на берегу реки Лены. Лена – пятая по величине река в мире, и одиннадцатая по длине: длина её — четыре тысячи четыреста километров. Её исток находится рядом с озером Байкал, а устье – у берега Северного ледовитого океана.
Но Лена вышла из берегов в тысяча шестьсот сорок втором году, и это заставило людей искать другое место. Они построили второй острог рядом с первым. Ещё недавно сохранялись остатки второго острога, например, деревянная башня. К сожалению, башню разрушил пожар в две тысячи втором году. Но острог восстановили.
Якутск быстро стал (or, with historical present: становится) центром этого района и базой для колонизации восточной Сибири. Оттуда начались экспедиции на юг и восток. И сейчас ещё Якутск – экономический, политический и культурный центр Якутии. Его положение на берегу Лены делает его важным портом.
По-моему Якутск интересен потому, что это самый холодный большой город в мире, наряду с Норильском. В самом деле, средняя температура зимой – минус тридцать пять градусов. Температура минус пятьдесят градусов бывает часто, и уже бывала температура минус шестьдесят градусов. Никогда не было температуры выше нуля градусов в декабре, январе и феврале. И средняя температура за весь год – минус девять градусов. В самом деле, надо понимать, что Якутск расположен рядом с северным полюсом холода. Сёла Оймякон и Верхоянск, которые удерживают рекорд холода, расположены на расстоянии около тысячи километров. К счастью, воздух сухой. Поэтому эти температуры легче переносить. Более того, летом часто бывает очень жарко, плюс тридцать градусов, потому что климат тут континентальный.
Из-за этих экстремальных температур у Якутска есть несколько особенностей. Это самый большой город, построенный на вечной мерзлоте, то есть почва там всегда замёрзшая. Чтобы жар от зданий не растопил почву, что может быть опасно, здания строятся на бетонных сваях. Но благодаря вечной мерзлоте сохранились трупы мамонтов. Поэтому в Якутске есть музей мамонта.
Кроме того, через Лену нет моста, и есть только один способ перебраться через реку в любое время года – на вертолёте. Летом надо садиться на паром; зимой можно вести машину по льду: Лена становится настоящей дорогой. Некоторые люди считают, что надо построить мост, другие — что тоннель, но конкретного проекта ещё нет. Многие боятся, что делать это экономическо нецелесообразно.
Более того, доехать туда на поезде невозможно. Самой близкий вокзал находится в Томмоте, на расстоянии четырёхсот километров.
Но в Якутске есть аэропорт, который авиакомпании используют чтобы испытывать манёвренность и сопротивление своих самолётов в холодных условиях.
Несмотря на эту трудную ситуацию, Якутск – настоящий город. В нём есть большие здания и институты: Преображенский собор, Театр имени А. С. Пушкина, Театр имени П. А. Ойунского, опера, спортивный комплекс, консерватория, и так далее. В городе также есть Северо-Восточный федеральный университет имени М. К. Аммосова (ранее известный как Якутский государственный университет имени М. К. Аммосова, и основанный в тысяча девятьсот пятьдесят шестом году).
Почему такой большой город находится в таком суровом климате? Может быть, из-за прекрасного природного окружения? Возможно. Но я думаю, что есть и другая причина: в Республике Саха много золота и алмазов.
The text is very good overall. Don’t hesitate if you have any specific questions. Guldrelokk (talk) 00:17, 11 October 2018 (UTC)

I have substituted corrections followed by your original wording in [brackets]. I'll leave it up to you to decide if the corrections are too advanced for where you are in your studies. —Stephen (Talk) 00:22, 11 October 2018 (UTC)
текст о [об] Якутске
Я решил с вами [вам] поговорить [говорить] о [об] Якутске. Этот город расположен [– расположенный] в пяти тысячах [пять тысяч] километров на [в] востоке Москвы [,] и в четырёхстах пятидесяти километрах [четыресто пятьдесят километров] к югу от [в юге] северного полярного круга. Якутск является столицей [– столица] и крупнейшим городом [самый большой город] в Республике Сахе [,] и Якутии [Якутие]. Название [Имя] города и республики происходит от имени народа якутов [Якутов].
Республика Саха – самая крупная [большая] провинция в России [России], и она почти такая же [так] большая, как Индиа. Более того, людей очень мало [тут есть очень мало людей] – менее [меньше] одного миллиона жителей. Поэтому плотность населения очень низкая [(низка)]. Но в Якутске живёт триста [тристо] тысяч человек [людей] [живут в Якутске], [–] то есть один человек из [от] трёх человек из Республики Саха [Сахи].
Якутск был основан [основал] исследователем Петром Бекетовым [исследователь Пётр Бекетов] в тысяча шестьсот тридцать втором году. Сначала [,] Якутск был маленьким острогом [маленький острог]. Назвали его Ленский Острог, потому что он на берегу реки Лени. Лена – пятая самая большая река в мире, и одиннадцатая самая длинная река – длина её четыре тысячи четыресто километров. Её исток рядом озера Байкала, и её устье – на берегу северного ледовитого океана.
I think I'll stop here, because Guldrelokk has done it, and his should be very good. —Stephen (Talk) 01:11, 11 October 2018 (UTC)
@Guldrelokk, Stephen G. Brown: Thanks a lot to you both!
"Этот город расположен в [...] четырёхстах пятидесяти километрах к югу", "на расстоянии четырёхсот километров": does that mean четыресто is an adjective? Per utramque cavernam 14:10, 12 October 2018 (UTC)
@Per utramque cavernam: Russian numerals show an incredibly awkward mix between government and agreement. They govern the noun in the nominative/accusative: четыреста километров, while they agree with it in the oblique cases: genitive четырёхсот километров, dative четырёмстам километрам and so on. There are many other complicacies, and this system is non-functional in the colloquial speech. Guldrelokk (talk) 16:45, 12 October 2018 (UTC)
I couldn't help with anything, as a I had a very busy week but you have been helped and it was a great job by everyone. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 02:38, 13 October 2018 (UTC)

French FWOTDs[edit]

We have a bunch of French FWOTDs at WT:FWOTDN that need their quotations translated (and a couple, like noblesse du robe, could probably use better quotations). Could you please go through them? —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 23:51, 11 October 2018 (UTC)

@Metaknowledge: I'll have a look at that this week. Per utramque cavernam 16:51, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
Just a friendly reminder... —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 22:44, 12 December 2018 (UTC)

qui a bu boira[edit]

Salut mon brave. Does this literally refer only to drinking (in which case it seems SoP, more of a famous quotation than a dictionary entry), or does it have a further figurative meaning like a leopard cannot change its spots? Equinox 09:24, 28 October 2018 (UTC)

Hi! I wasn't familiar with that proverb, but from what I see online, it indeed seems to be used in a more general sense: old habits die hard. Per utramque cavernam 09:40, 28 October 2018 (UTC)

(avoir une) livraison de bois devant sa porte[edit]

This phrase is often mentioned in discussions of the Dutch bos hout voor de deur and appears in a dictionary from the 19th century. But it seems terribly uncommon, and might just be citable by the skin of its teeth. Do you know whether there are any variants made up of more or less synonymous elements? ←₰-→ Lingo Bingo Dingo (talk) 12:06, 12 November 2018 (UTC)

@Lingo Bingo Dingo: Mh, not to the best of my knowledge, no. A common idiom that has a similar structure to this one could be avoir du monde au balcon ("elle a du monde au balcon") / y avoir du monde au balcon ("il y a du monde au balcon"). --Per utramque cavernam 15:46, 12 November 2018 (UTC)


We have an old-fashioned English veterinary sense. Same in French, yeah? It's not listed under the French header. Equinox 03:14, 25 November 2018 (UTC)

@Equinox: Mh. I'm not sure. It's mentioned neither on fr.wikt nor on the TLFi, and the other senses make it quite hard to look for that sense. However, I've found this; at page 198, the legend of the third picture says "Barrage d'une seime (procédé Vachette)". The text also speaks of the "agrafes Vachette" or the "pince Vachette". Another book says "The best kind of clasps or hooks are undoubtedly those of Vachette". Looks like Vachette is actually a proper noun? Per utramque cavernam 10:13, 25 November 2018 (UTC)
Okay, probably was named after somebody. Do ya like to follow WT:RE:fr? Do it! love, Equinox 15:36, 25 November 2018 (UTC)

I miss you[edit]

Dear X! I miss your guidance at greek! No greek any more :(((? You are the one who taught me that 'borrow' is not a bad word, and you always kept an eye on me. I hope your career is booming! Your faithful student, sarri.greek (talk) 15:29, 25 November 2018 (UTC)

@Sarri.greek: Γεια σου Σαρρή. Συγνώμη για την αργοπορημένη απάντηση. Συνεχίζω να μαθαίνω Ελληνικά στις Βρυξέλλες, αλλά εδώ στο Βικιλεξικό προτιμάω να συγκεντρώνω στα Γαλλικά. Έχω πολλές εκφράσεις να μεταφράσω στα Αγγλικά. Per utramque cavernam 12:12, 1 December 2018 (UTC)
 !! your greek is very good. Happy month! Kαλό μήνα. sarri.greek (talk) 12:21, 1 December 2018 (UTC)


I'm sure, this rollback is in error. PaulaMeh (talk) 00:10, 4 December 2018 (UTC)

Why were you removing the explicit marking of the short vowels? PUC's rollback seems quite appropriate. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 00:13, 4 December 2018 (UTC)


How are you doing? Enjoying your break/retirement from hardcore Wiktioneering?
On lexical matters less hardcore but no less hard, it seems that French hard can also mean "hardrock". Do you think such a sense would be attestable? It would be a nice pseudo-anglicism FWOTD nominee. ←₰-→ Lingo Bingo Dingo (talk) 14:13, 7 December 2018 (UTC)

@Lingo Bingo Dingo: Yes, I've already heard it used like that. I think so: [1], [2], [3], [4]. Per utramque cavernam 19:09, 10 December 2018 (UTC)


Is this new entry legitimate at all? It claims to be an Acadian spelling. Equinox 17:29, 8 December 2018 (UTC)

I don't know; I don't see any valid instance on GB. The pronunciation it points to (/o.ʒɔʁ.dɥi/ instead of /o.ʒuʁ.dɥi/) is very common in standard French, though writing it like that would clearly be considered a misspelling. Per utramque cavernam 18:58, 10 December 2018 (UTC)
@Equinox Per utramque cavernam 18:59, 10 December 2018 (UTC)