Talk:湑

RFV discussion: May–November 2017

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湑

Rfv-sense for "bright" definition. Couldn't find it in any online dictionaries or brief scanning of Kangxi and Shuowen Jiezi dictionaries. Bumm13 (talk) 21:46, 22 May 2017 (UTC)

I've removed this sense. Dokurrat (talk) 04:59, 2 November 2017 (UTC)

Rfv failed. Dokurrat (talk) 06:40, 20 November 2017 (UTC)

Japanese: 湑み

Not a very experienced wiki contributor. In Japanese, 湑み (したみ, shitami) seems to be a noun for the dregs themselves. Especially in the form 湑みの酒. Someone with better ability in the language and formatting the wiki entry should make the call on this one. Thanks.

On the reading

This and 醑 are two complicated characters in terms of reading.

The "bright" sense that was prevoiusly rfv-ed is in fact in many dictionaries. It is used as an epithet for the dew in 詩經.

Middle Chinese

廣韻 has sjoX and sjo under 湑 with identical definition ("露皃"), and only sjoX under 醑 ("簏酒").

Mandarin

For 湑, most modern Mandarin dictionaries have xǔ reading for all senses except the river name. Some dictionaries (e.g. 三民大辭典) also have xū as general variant for all senses of 湑.

The river name is:

• xū per 漢語大詞典 and 漢語大字典
• xù per 现代汉语词典 (both 5th and 7th editions) and 现代汉语规范词典 第3版

For 醑, the only reading is xǔ.

Cantonese

Most Cantonese dictionaries have seoi5 for 醑 and seoi1 for 湑, the recent (post-1970s) ones also have seoi2, which is the regular reflex from MC sjoX. 廣州話正音字典, 2007, has seoi2 alone for both.

Curiously, Ernest J. Eitel's 1877 Cantonese dictionary has 湑 seoi1 & 醑 seoi5 in headers, but seoi2 in the body of the 湑's entry:

꜀sü 湑 To strain spirits. Clear; bright. Read ꜂sü; s.a. 醑 ꜂sü, dewy; abundant; deep. Shi. Strained spirits.

有酒湑我 ꜃yau ꜂tsau ꜂sü ꜃ngo, furnished me the best of wine. (Shi.)

零露湑兮 ꜁ling lò꜅ ꜂sü ꜁hai, with the bright dew lying on it. (ib.)

꜃sü 醑 To strain liquor; pure wine; clear; bright

[no citations or examples]

One dialectal Cantonese dictionary, 吴川音字典, has 湑 as rdei1 (equivalent to GZ Canto seoi1) for general sense, and rdei5 (~seoi3) for the river name, but that is probably a Mandarin-influenced reconstruction.

Hokkien

甘字典 has both su and sú under 湑.

普闽典 only has 湑 as river name, with Mandarin xū and Hokkien su.

當代泉州音字彙 has sír, sir as variants for 湑 and just sír for 醑

Conclusion

I think the 上-toned readings should be the primary, and the 平-toned readings should be general variants (only for 湑). Xù should be the reading for the river name in Mandarin, but there is no need to invent its counterparts in other languages. 153.202.11.139 00:02, 25 May 2023 (UTC)