Talk:糅
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rou2/rou3[edit]
@Wyang, Justinrleung, Dokurrat, Geographyinitiative: Could someone check the pronunciation? It seems like the Taiwan MoE uses both rou2 and rou3 in entries, while the Hanyu Da Zidian uses rou2. I'm not aware of what sources should be used as "standards". —Suzukaze-c◇◇ 02:47, 11 August 2018 (UTC)
- Seems like rou2 (affected by 有邊讀邊) as Mainland and Taiwan standard, and rou3 as Taiwan variant. Wyang (talk) 03:29, 11 August 2018 (UTC)
- @Suzukaze-c: @Wyang is right. 國語一字多音審訂表 and 普通话异读词审音表 both have róu. 现代规范汉语词典 says "统读 róu，不读 rǒu 或 ròu", so rǒu and ròu might be variants in Mainland? — justin(r)leung { (t...) | c=› } 04:10, 11 August 2018 (UTC)
- I support 'variant in Mainland' for rǒu, and maybe for ròu. Mainland: When I listen to this video (普及国粹：糅合京剧元素的街舞 Breakdance with Beijing Opera), it sounds to me like the reporter says 'rǒuhé' in the opening fifteen seconds. The 普通話异讀詞审音表初稿(第三編)《文字改革》月刊1962年12月号85期 singled out 糅合 to be read as 'róuhé'- they must have wanted to do away with the 'rǒuhé' pronunciation? 《康熙字典·米部·九》:..."又《集韻》《韻會》《正韻》𠀤忍九切，蹂上聲。義同。" 《廣韻·去聲·宥·糅》糅：雜也。女救切，五。Combined with the 现代规范汉语词典 statement mentioned above, rǒu and ròu seem to me like variants for Mandarin or at least historical variants for Mandarin for the Mainland. Taiwan: I do see that 教育部重編國語辭典修訂本 at http://dict.revised.moe.edu.tw/ seems inconsistent about the pronunciation of 糅. If 糅 were considered a 多音字, there would be a page for both 糅-rou2 and 糅-rou3, but in fact there is only a page for 糅-rou3. You would expect the dictionary to only use rou3 for all entries that have 糅 but when you look at the entries for 糅合 and 糅雜, the dictionary uses rou2 without explanation. The Chinese (Traditional) Microsoft New Phonetic IME2002a keyboard has 糅-rou3 but doesn't have 糅-rou2. -- There is also a "推導現代漢語" pronunciation: 'niu4' http://www.zdic.net/z/20/yy/7CC5.htm --Geographyinitiative (talk) 08:16, 11 August 2018 (UTC)
- (She is saying rou2 at 00:15 in that clip.) 糅 is rarely used outside of literary contexts nowadays, so finding evidence for a variant pronunciation would be difficult. I've only heard 揉 being pronounced colloquially as rou3 by some- I suppose it is possible for 糅 to have the same reading. Ming-dynasty 《洪武正韻》 recorded the shangsheng reading for 糅. Wyang (talk) 00:27, 12 August 2018 (UTC)
- (niu4 is also recorded here. —Suzukaze-c◇◇ 00:29, 12 August 2018 (UTC))
- (She is saying rou2 at 00:15 in that clip.) 糅 is rarely used outside of literary contexts nowadays, so finding evidence for a variant pronunciation would be difficult. I've only heard 揉 being pronounced colloquially as rou3 by some- I suppose it is possible for 糅 to have the same reading. Ming-dynasty 《洪武正韻》 recorded the shangsheng reading for 糅. Wyang (talk) 00:27, 12 August 2018 (UTC)
- I support 'variant in Mainland' for rǒu, and maybe for ròu. Mainland: When I listen to this video (普及国粹：糅合京剧元素的街舞 Breakdance with Beijing Opera), it sounds to me like the reporter says 'rǒuhé' in the opening fifteen seconds. The 普通話异讀詞审音表初稿(第三編)《文字改革》月刊1962年12月号85期 singled out 糅合 to be read as 'róuhé'- they must have wanted to do away with the 'rǒuhé' pronunciation? 《康熙字典·米部·九》:..."又《集韻》《韻會》《正韻》𠀤忍九切，蹂上聲。義同。" 《廣韻·去聲·宥·糅》糅：雜也。女救切，五。Combined with the 现代规范汉语词典 statement mentioned above, rǒu and ròu seem to me like variants for Mandarin or at least historical variants for Mandarin for the Mainland. Taiwan: I do see that 教育部重編國語辭典修訂本 at http://dict.revised.moe.edu.tw/ seems inconsistent about the pronunciation of 糅. If 糅 were considered a 多音字, there would be a page for both 糅-rou2 and 糅-rou3, but in fact there is only a page for 糅-rou3. You would expect the dictionary to only use rou3 for all entries that have 糅 but when you look at the entries for 糅合 and 糅雜, the dictionary uses rou2 without explanation. The Chinese (Traditional) Microsoft New Phonetic IME2002a keyboard has 糅-rou3 but doesn't have 糅-rou2. -- There is also a "推導現代漢語" pronunciation: 'niu4' http://www.zdic.net/z/20/yy/7CC5.htm --Geographyinitiative (talk) 08:16, 11 August 2018 (UTC)
- @Suzukaze-c: @Wyang is right. 國語一字多音審訂表 and 普通话异读词审音表 both have róu. 现代规范汉语词典 says "统读 róu，不读 rǒu 或 ròu", so rǒu and ròu might be variants in Mainland? — justin(r)leung { (t...) | c=› } 04:10, 11 August 2018 (UTC)