Talk:episcopus

RFV discussion: March 2016–April 2017

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episcopus

RFV for the chess sense, please. The chess sense seems to be a literal translation of the English term. But even though it's a correct literal translation from English to Latin, that doesn't mean that this Latin sense exists.
(The Latin term here for king for example is also a literal translation of the Spanish, French, German term, so it's more likely that it exists.) -84.161.40.56 19:38, 27 March 2016 (UTC)

I've run it through the Gaffiot which has post-Classical Latin as well as Classical, and it doesn't have it. Renard Migrant (talk) 22:39, 28 March 2016 (UTC)

Primary sources for Latin chess piece names:

• De Ludis Orientalibus Libri Duo is in Latin, uses the word Scachorum and Scaccarium, mentions several names for chess pieces and has "Caroli Magni. / Rex / Regina / Sagittifer / Centaurus / Elephas / Pedes". Later the text contains the word "Episcopus", but it could also refer to the etymology or to religious bishops.
• Scientiarum omnium encyclopaediae (1649): "Atque hic est ludus scacchiae, de quo circumfertur versus: Turris, Eques, Pastor, Regem, Regina sequatur. Quae nomina sic ferè exprimuntur: Rex, βασιλεὺς : Regina, [Greek] : Turris, seu Elephas, [Greek] : Sagittarius, τοξότης : Eques, ἱππεὺς : Pedes, seu Rusticus, [Greek]."

Secondary sources:

• In A. v. d. Linde's Quellenstudien zur Geschichte des Schachspiels it is "Rex, regina (= Amazone), sagittifer, miles, elephantus turritus." which should refer to chess pieces.
• A van der Linde, Der Roch. Zur wissenschaftlichen Entscheidung einer Heraldischen Streitfrage, p. 8f.: "Sein tükischer Sprung machte ihn zum Auflauerer (explorator, speculator, insidiator) und dann später zum Schützen (arcer, arcifer, sagittifer, sagittarius – Vida 1525 sagittifer, Rabelais, um 1550?, und Gruget, Paris 1560, archier; Gustavus Selenus, Leipzig 1616 Schütze)" and "Ein unbekannter lateinischer Dichter des Mittelalters hat die Schachfiguren sogar astronomisch gedeutet: Rex est Sol, pedes est Saturnus, Mars quoque miles, Regina virgo Venus, Alphinus Episcopus ipse est Jupiter, et Roccus discurrens Luna."
• Antonius van der Linde, Geschichte und Litteratur des Schachspiels. Zweiter Band: After "Die Figuren heissen" Latin names should follow and it should refer to Latin texts related to Chess.
• H. F. Maßmann, Geschichte des mittelalterlichen, vorzugsweise des Deutschen Schachspieles, p. 40: "wie der Läufer bei Karl dem Großen sagittifer hieß"
• Chess Player's Annual & Club Directory 1890 has a table with several names. It could have "Rex / Regina / Turris, or Rochus / Sagittarius, or Calvus / Eques / Pedes" and "Turritusfit / Scacchum / Mattum".

So Latin episcopus should be attestable, but sagittarius and sagittifer should be more common. -Ikiaika (talk) 14:58, 11 May 2016 (UTC)

Well, passed per those citations, then. Feel free to switch the chess-terms template to use the more common term, and switch the chass sense of this entry for {{synonym of}}, if you like. - -sche (discuss) 20:34, 30 April 2017 (UTC)

@Lambiam: Are any of the citations from the RfV above acceptable for restoring the chess sense you removed? J3133 (talk) 06:54, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

Only one of these seven citations, the one from “ein unbekannter lateinischer Dichter des Mittelalters”, uses the term episcopus, viz. in the combination Alphinus Episcopus. (Geschichte und Litteratur des Schachspiels has stolidus.) Note that this citation was present when I removed the chess sence; I did and do not think this citation supports the notion that the term episcopus by itself was used to refer to the chess bishop. I think the combination Alphinus Episcopus in the poem De Vetula should be translated as the alfin, a bishop – the name of the piece being alphinus, and episcopus being a clarification. When this was written, the etymological connection of the term alphin to elephants had been lost, and the term alphin was thought to be, outside the chess context, another term for bishop or even a generic term for a prelate. Evidence: “Alphini sunt Episcopi ” and “Alphini prelati sunt”.^[1]. The form alphinus is a Latinization of alphin.  --Lambiam 13:27, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

@Lambiam: I have removed {{table:chess pieces/la}} as this sense is no longer present in the entry. The template now is missing a term for this chess piece. J3133 (talk) 13:39, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

@J3133 – I have filled the void with sagittifer.  --Lambiam 14:00, 22 February 2024 (UTC)