Module talk:zh/data/dial-syn/砍

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Is 斬 the usual word for cutting in cooking in Standard Mandarin?[edit]

@The dog2 剁 seems to be more common, no? — justin(r)leung { (t...) | c=› } 02:22, 18 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Justinrleung: Maybe my understanding was based on Singaporean Mandarin, which has a strong southern influence. If you know for sure that standard Mandarin in mainland China uses 剁, then go ahead and change it. We almost never use 剁 in this sense in Singapore. 剁 from my understanding is more in line with "to mince". You won't use it to referring to chopping a chicken through the bone. The dog2 (talk) 03:06, 18 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@The dog2: I'm not sure actually. Dictionaries have 剁雞, so it's not necessarily "mincing" in all instances. I'm not entirely sure if and/or how to split 斬 and 剁. @沈澄心, 恨国党非蠢即坏, RcAlex36 what do you think? — justin(r)leung { (t...) | c=› } 00:22, 19 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • In fact, I think the most common Mandarin word for "cutting in cooking" is 切. Written recipes mostly use this verb.
  • 剁 is kind of colloquial, and sounds more powerful and less skillful than 切. I guess 剁 might be an onomatopoeia, referring to the "doh" sound when chopping something on a chopping board.
  • On the other hand, 斩 may have come from Cantonese, as shown in the case of 白切鸡 and 白斩鸡. 斩 is not very common in Mandarin IMO. 恨国党非蠢即坏 (talk) 12:23, 20 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@恨国党非蠢即坏, The dog2: 切 is a little too broad because it's cutting in general, rather than chopping (cutting into pieces with short, vigorous cutting motions). 剁 may be a good option then, although 汉语方言词汇 doesn't include 斬 in Guangzhou Cantonese or 鏨 for Xiamen Min Nan in its entry for 剁. — justin(r)leung { (t...) | c=› } 03:28, 21 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@恨国党非蠢即坏, Justinrleung: Although this is not for cooking, one way to say "to behead" is 斬首. I guess Singaporean Mandarin may have been somewhat influenced by Cantonese, given that 白斬雞 and other Cantonese dishes are quite popular in Singapore. The dog2 (talk) 03:38, 21 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
After reading the module page I found you are talking of "chop", but you had been asking about "cutting in cooking" in the section title. 剁 is closer to "chop" but 切 is obviously the most common word for "cutting in cooking" and 切 has some compounds that can very well replace 剁 and are less colloquial, like 切块, 切丝, 切细, 切碎. 恨国党非蠢即坏 (talk) 04:10, 21 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘@恨国党非蠢即坏, Justinrleung: What I was thinking of was more along the lines to a big chopping motion, like if you need to chop through bone. The dog2 (talk) 04:39, 21 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@The dog2: Oh, I see. I don't think this should be restricted to cooking then. It's kind of more along the lines of 砍. — justin(r)leung { (t...) | c=› } 04:41, 21 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Justinrleung: Yeah but 斬 and 砍 aren't used in exactly the same way though. Sure, if you want to say "to behead", both 斬頭 and 砍頭 can be used. But if you are chopping a whole chicken or parts of a pig into pieces to serve as food, you can only use 斬 but not 砍. And likewise, if you are chopping down a tree, you can only use 砍 but not 斬. The dog2 (talk) 04:49, 21 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@The dog2: I think we can be a little looser. Verbs are really hard to deal with in general. I suggested 砍 because I thought you said you're thinking of a big chopping motion rather than chopping into pieces, which wouldn't be in the scope of what you're thinking. 砍 is also used as the 華語詞目 for the Taiwanese Hokkien terms you've included here. — justin(r)leung { (t...) | c=› } 04:59, 21 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Justinrleung: OK, if we're going to loosely classify them as synonyms then I guess it's fine. Unfortunately, I don't know how to describe the rules on when to use 斬 and when to use 砍. I just know when to use which one from experience. The dog2 (talk) 05:04, 21 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@The dog2: We can just list them out without labelling. The idiosyncrasies can be dealt with in the respective entries through usage examples or notes. — justin(r)leung { (t...) | c=› } 05:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Singapore Cantonese[edit]

@Justinrleung Do you by any chance know what the word is here: [1] (32:08) ? The dog2 (talk) 02:53, 21 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@The dog2: I think he said 剁 doek1? — justin(r)leung { (t...) | c=› } 04:58, 21 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Justinrleung: Should we include it here? The dog2 (talk) 05:07, 21 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@The dog2: Hmm, I'm not sure. @RcAlex36, what do you think? — justin(r)leung { (t...) | c=› } 05:09, 21 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Justinrleung, The dog2 No I think. RcAlex36 (talk) 05:12, 21 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
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