User talk:Justinrleung

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Why do you keep reverting my edits? Johnny Shiz (talk) 05:54, 8 July 2017 (UTC)

@Johnny Shiz: Because they're not right. — justin(r)leung (t...) | c=› } 05:56, 8 July 2017 (UTC)
Well, go back and look at an older revision and see who's right. Johnny Shiz (talk) 06:42, 8 July 2017 (UTC)
@Johnny Shiz: I'm not getting what you're getting at. — justin(r)leung (t...) | c=› } 06:46, 8 July 2017 (UTC)
@Justinrleung: Go back to an earlier revision of this, and see if it says that its a variant of . Johnny Shiz (talk) 07:28, 8 July 2017 (UTC)
@Johnny Shiz: Earlier revisions are earlier because they've been changed- more often than not because they weren't as good as what replaced them, or because they were just wrong. Earlier revisions aren't lost ancient wisdom, they're just earlier revisions. Chuck Entz (talk) 10:28, 8 July 2017 (UTC)

Etymology of [edit]

This is an old version of the page for 壽. It was revised because the etymology couldn't be sourced. Can you please try to see if you can find a source for the 1st one? Johnny Shiz (talk) 07:49, 8 July 2017 (UTC)

@Johnny Shiz: The old etymology doesn't make much sense; the new etymology makes more sense. — justin(r)leung (t...) | c=› } 20:59, 9 July 2017 (UTC)


Can you please attempt to search for the glyph origin for this character? Johnny Shiz (talk) 12:23, 8 July 2017 (UTC)


I still kinda don't understand. How can this be a variant of if it were made much earlier than 草? (skepticism) I think it is an ancient or obsolete form. Johnny Shiz (talk) 12:25, 8 July 2017 (UTC)

Yeah, it should probably be an ancient form. — justin(r)leung (t...) | c=› } 13:28, 8 July 2017 (UTC)

what is this lol[edit]

𠀗𠀖𠀫𠀪 Johnny Shiz (talk) 00:24, 9 July 2017 (UTC)

Also can you Google Translate what "khệnh khạng" means in English? I'm in China now, and Google is blocked there. Johnny Shiz (talk) 00:27, 9 July 2017 (UTC)
Haha... I don't speak Vietnamese, so I can't be sure what khệnh khạng means. This dictionary says it means slowly. — justin(r)leung (t...) | c=› } 00:35, 9 July 2017 (UTC)
You still haven't answered my question yet. What is this? Johnny Shiz (talk) 05:07, 9 July 2017 (UTC)


This [bopomofo]] is from the simplified version of , . But Bopomofo is mainly used in Taiwan, and traditional characters are mainly used in Taiwan. (as well as HK, and Macau). But 儿 has other senses. My questions are this:

1) Is ㄦ derived from 儿 as a simplified character, or 儿 from another sense?
2) If it is derived from 儿 as another sense, then which sense?
3) If it is derived from 儿 as a simplified character, then why do you think that Taiwan would even venture into the realm of simplification? Simplified characters are banned in Taiwan government documents.

Johnny Shiz (talk) 04:03, 9 July 2017 (UTC)

@Johnny Shiz: Bopomofo was introduced in the 1910s, when China was still the ROC, when simplified characters were not really a huge concern. In fact, the Nationalist party started the discussion on simplified characters in the 1930s. It is quite possible that it is taken directly from 儿, which was probably already a common variant of 兒 at that time. — justin(r)leung (t...) | c=› } 04:15, 9 July 2017 (UTC)


On this page, it says that it was derived from which was an ancient form of . But ㄗ represents "z" in Bopomofo, and 卩 and 節 are pronounced "jié". The page addresses this, saying that they were formerly pronounced zié, but that seems extremely unlikely to me. Is that true? If not, please edit the page and see if you can find out why "j" becomes "z" here. Johnny Shiz (talk) 04:26, 9 July 2017 (UTC)

@Johnny Shiz: Bopomofo was first used to represent the sounds of Old National Pronunciation, where 節 was pronounced as ㄗㄧㄝ (zie, entering tone). — justin(r)leung (t...) | c=› } 04:41, 9 July 2017 (UTC)


This bopomofo has 𠫓 as its basis. On the Wikipedia page, it says the origin of 𠫓 is a pictogram of an upside-down baby (). On the Wiktionary page of ㄊ, it says that 𠫓 is an ancient variant of . 𠫓 doesn't have an article yet, and I want to create one, however I don't know which sense to use. I think it's possible for both senses to be correct. What do you think? Johnny Shiz (talk) 04:43, 9 July 2017 (UTC)

@Johnny Shiz: Please take a look at w:Talk:Bopomofo#Etymology of ㄊ. — justin(r)leung (t...) | c=› } 04:46, 9 July 2017 (UTC)


Did this character exist before the simplification? Cause its traditional form, 's glyph origin lists 号 as a phonetic and as a semantic. Is the glyph origin correct? If it is, then I need to know what 号 meant before the simplification. If it isn't, then I need to know the correct glyph origin. Johnny Shiz (talk) 04:51, 9 July 2017 (UTC)


(Links added for the quotes) Wikipedia: "From 𠃉, archaic variant of yǐ or yà (乚 is yǐn according to other sources)" Wiktionary: "Derived from 𠃑, an ancient form of (Mandarin: yǐn)" Just curious, is 乚 somehow related to 隱? Johnny Shiz (talk) 04:54, 9 July 2017 (UTC)


How do I get it to say "..which is in turn a variant form of..."? Johnny Shiz (talk) 04:56, 9 July 2017 (UTC)

@Johnny Shiz: If you redirect (with {{zh-see|(something)|s}}) to a page with {{zh-see|(something else)|v}}. — justin(r)leung (t...) | c=› } 05:12, 9 July 2017 (UTC)


What are THESE used for? Johnny Shiz (talk) 05:01, 9 July 2017 (UTC)

@Johnny Shiz: Just read the file and you'll know. — justin(r)leung (t...) | c=› } 05:10, 9 July 2017 (UTC)


What does 𠄑𠄍 mean? Go check on zdic and help me translate the entry. If that fails, try somewhere else. You know Chinese better than me. Johnny Shiz (talk) 05:17, 9 July 2017 (UTC)

and [edit]

They're variants of each other. How legit. Johnny Shiz (talk) 05:19, 9 July 2017 (UTC)


二叠字 like , 三叠字 like , even 四叠字 like , but 五叠字 like 𠂹? Whoa. Johnny Shiz (talk) 05:33, 9 July 2017 (UTC)

It's a variant of . Johnny Shiz (talk) 11:58, 9 July 2017 (UTC)


Look at etymology 3 Johnny Shiz (talk) 08:48, 9 July 2017 (UTC) (PS have you read my other posts here?)

Poor Justin, getting the talk page spammed.[edit]

Here's one more. Wyang (talk) 08:52, 9 July 2017 (UTC)

@Wyang Haha...
@Johnny Shiz you've gotta learn to be a tiny bit more considerate of others. I can't be up all night answering your questions. I know you're really curious, but you need to control yourself a bit. It's quite rude of you to have removed Wyang's post here; you can't just remove other people's comments that may be pointing out your faults. It's okay to make mistakes and you don't need to hide it, but you've gotta learn from them. — justin(r)leung (t...) | c=› } 13:56, 9 July 2017 (UTC)
@Justinrleung I was removing spam. Isn't that good? Johnny Shiz (talk) 21:51, 9 July 2017 (UTC)
@Johnny Shiz: I don't think Wyang was spamming compared to what you're doing, if you know what I mean. — justin(r)leung (t...) | c=› } 21:55, 9 July 2017 (UTC)
@Justinrleung: Sorry, I didn't know that you'd be triggered by removing that post, just trying to make good faith edits here. Johnny Shiz (talk) 22:02, 9 July 2017 (UTC)
@Johnny Shiz: I'm sorry if I have assumed anything. I wasn't that irritated that you removed the post, but more concerned about the flood of questions, which is honestly quite overwhelming. I assume the questions are asked in good faith. I'm not pushing you away from asking questions, but there are better ways to do so. I'm not the only editor here. The questions should be asked at their appropriate places, e.g. WT:TR and WT:ES. — justin(r)leung (t...) | c=› } 23:28, 9 July 2017 (UTC)
An important rule of wiki etiquette: don't mess with other people's comments on talk pages, especially if you don't know the context- Wyang is a veteran editor, and was making a joke. Also, remember that everyone here is a volunteer, doing this in their spare time. A few questions are welcome. A lot of questions take too much time away from doing other things. Chuck Entz (talk) 14:18, 10 July 2017 (UTC)
Hmm, perhaps I shouldn't be making jokes... Wyang (talk) 02:55, 13 July 2017 (UTC)

(yes, again)[edit]

This is not listed as a variant of in the 教育部异体字字典. Johnny Shiz (talk) 10:30, 9 July 2017 (UTC) Update: Same with .

@Johnny Shiz: We don't have to follow that particular dictionary, though it is a great resource. — justin(r)leung (t...) | c=› } 13:46, 9 July 2017 (UTC)


I think this user is making strange edits, especially to Module:zh-see. Could you check them? (especially because it seems to be the same person who was reverted at multiple times...) —suzukaze (tc) 01:13, 22 July 2017 (UTC)

I reverted the zh-see edits and everything that used them. There's no explanation of what an "appendix word" is, and how it's different from a variant. It's completely irresponsible to add things to entries that no one will be able to understand, and without consulting the community about it. I can't read the character variant dictionary that they linked to, so I don't know if it has an appendix. Even if there is, a variant is a variant regardless of where it's listed. My guess is a well-meaning but wrong-headed "bright idea" by someone whose level of English comprehension isn't high enough to understand what Wiktionary is doing rather than merely being able to reverse-engineer it.
I don't know Chinese well enough to tell whether their other edits have any merit or even whether there may be something to their ideas, if introduced properly- but that part was obviously wrong, so I reverted it. Chuck Entz (talk) 02:14, 22 July 2017 (UTC)
@Chuck Entz, Suzukaze-c Their zh-see edits are definitely wrong. This user is holding the MoE Dictionary of Variants like a Bible. The dictionary does have an appendix, but they're just more variants, but probably identified with less certainty. We have no need to mirror that dictionary. — justin(r)leung (t...) | c=› } 05:33, 22 July 2017 (UTC)
Oh dear. I think they've been editing under other IP addresses too. Some of these also geolocate to Shandong as well. —suzukaze (tc) 05:35, 22 July 2017 (UTC)


I was wondering if you could complete this entry. —suzukaze (tc) 05:25, 13 August 2017 (UTC)

@Suzukaze-c: I've added the translation. I'm just not sure about 著 (which seems to be 就) and 塊 (which seems to be used as 佇). — justin(r)leung (t...) | c=› } 05:47, 13 August 2017 (UTC)


Actually I have no f--king idea. When I initially moved the text to the top, I noticed that the hyphen also changed to a fullwidth hyphen, but didn't catch "成". I don't know if it's my browser or what. —suzukaze (tc) 22:04, 24 August 2017 (UTC)

@Suzukaze-c: Alright, good to know. Do you have some translator/conversion tool/script turned on? It's pretty weird for 姓 to change to 成. — justin(r)leung (t...) | c=› } 22:11, 24 August 2017 (UTC)
After thinking about it a bit I wonder if it was the Japanese IME that I have on all the time ( (sei) (sei)), but I'm not aware of any keystrokes that would do such things. —suzukaze (tc) 22:12, 24 August 2017 (UTC)


It's on Jiaoyubu Yitizi Zidian, I saw the references on it, I think the refs are OK, so I added it. Dokurrat (talk) 03:29, 8 September 2017 (UTC)

@Dokurrat: I mean, if it's already a simplified form (jianhuazi), I don't think we need to add it as an alternative form. @Wyang, Suzukaze-c, how should we deal with such a case? — justin(r)leung (t...) | c=› } 03:32, 8 September 2017 (UTC)
@Justinrleung: My opinion is, I think by adding it as a variant, It can be shown that this glyph is not a product of a spelling reform. It is not used in modern traditional Chinese, so a label obsolete may be used aside. Dokurrat (talk) 03:37, 8 September 2017 (UTC)
@Dokurrat: Many glyphs were not really a product of a spelling reform, like 从 and 个. I think we can explain it in the glyph origin section. Wouldn't labelling it obsolete make it even more confusing? It's not obsolete since it's used in simplified Chinese and some people who write traditional Chinese also use it as a shorthand. — justin(r)leung (t...) | c=› } 03:41, 8 September 2017 (UTC)
I think it makes sense to include in {{{alt}}}, but I also understand that it might look weird. —suzukaze (tc) 04:17, 8 September 2017 (UTC)
I think leaving it out is fine. If there is widespread before simplification, it can be mentioned in the simplified page. Wyang (talk) 04:19, 8 September 2017 (UTC)


If you don't think it is a valid variant form should Misspelling of 屎胐. be used?--2001:DA8:201:3512:9571:A083:6ECA:CAD9 16:03, 15 September 2017 (UTC)

I don't think it's a real misspelling because it's mostly a product of Unicode. Many people are unaware of the two different codepoints. and are essentially the same graphically. A more obvious example is and 𠄞; they are graphically identical. In fact, Hanyu Da Zidian treats them as the same character with two different pronunciations. I would not say 二 is a variant of 𠄞 or 上. @Wyang, Suzukaze-c, what's your take on this? — justin(r)leung (t...) | c=› } 17:27, 15 September 2017 (UTC)
I'm persuaded and think that a redirect suffices here (and in general, unless the variant Unicode form has other uses, e.g. ). I bet Suzukaze-c is going to say something along the lines of ... Wyang (talk) 23:07, 15 September 2017 (UTC)
I think ~月出 should be a hard redirect to ~肉出. —suzukaze (tc) 05:51, 16 September 2017 (UTC)


Sorry to bother you, but I just don't see where is the glyph 光. Dokurrat (talk) 10:08, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

@Dokurrat: If you remove the three circles (晶) and the three lines on the side (彡), you get 光. — justin(r)leung (t...) | c=› } 12:43, 21 September 2017 (UTC)
@Justinrleung: Have you seen glyph like that in oracle bone script? What I only have seen is the glyph like one at right. Dokurrat (talk) 12:57, 21 September 2017 (UTC)
@Dokurrat: It's not the oracle bone script that we're looking at. It's the bronze script. Take a look at some of these forms. — justin(r)leung (t...) | c=› } 13:09, 21 September 2017 (UTC)
@Justinrleung: Oh, I'm being careless. Thank you. Dokurrat (talk) 13:13, 21 September 2017 (UTC)


Justin ― Would you fancy becoming an admin? You have been around for quite some time, have impressive knowledge on the varieties of Chinese (and others), and have consistently been doing great work on creating, maintaining and patrolling Chinese entries and dealing with RFV/RFD/etc. It would be a mistake not to have you as admin. Wyang (talk) 13:04, 23 September 2017 (UTC)

@Wyang: After a bit of consideration, I think that'd be cool :D — justin(r)leung (t...) | c=› } 22:08, 23 September 2017 (UTC)
Woo hoo! It's here: Wiktionary:Votes/sy-2017-09/User:Justinrleung for admin. Please accept the nomination on the page, Justin. Wyang (talk) 00:20, 24 September 2017 (UTC)
@Wyang: Thanks for your nomination! — justin(r)leung (t...) | c=› } 00:31, 24 September 2017 (UTC)
Not just cool, but official: you're now an admin. Congratulations! Chuck Entz (talk) 14:05, 9 October 2017 (UTC)
@Chuck Entz: thanks! — justin(r)leung (t...) | c=› } 15:27, 9 October 2017 (UTC)

Glyph of 膥[edit]

Because the Unicode G glyph (is this the way it is called?) of 膥 is not 未成肉, which caused me done such reaction. I've no idea whether it is a error made by Unicode or can be traced earlier. Dokurrat (talk) 08:11, 5 October 2017 (UTC)

And I think it may be useful to point out that the glyph issue, but maybe what I've written is kind of luōsuo. Dokurrat (talk) 08:17, 5 October 2017 (UTC)

@Dokurrat: I've got no idea why the G glyph has 末 instead of 未. The Unihan Database says that it comes from GB/T 15564-1995, which is a character set for Hong Kong characters. I'm pretty sure there's nothing special about it other than a mistake. See this discussion for more details. — justin(r)leung (t...) | c=› } 23:30, 5 October 2017 (UTC)
@Justinrleung: Thank you! I've added info to the 膥 entry, and please review what I've written there if you have time. Dokurrat (talk) 23:50, 5 October 2017 (UTC)
@Dokurrat: I've made it a little more specific so that people actually know what the unexpected shape is. — justin(r)leung (t...) | c=› } 23:53, 5 October 2017 (UTC)
@Justinrleung: Roger! Dokurrat (talk) 23:55, 5 October 2017 (UTC)


Knock knock, Where did you get the pronunciation jīng? Dokurrat (talk) 16:23, 7 October 2017 (UTC)

@Dokurrat: It comes from 教育部異體字字典, which cites 集韻 for this reading. — justin(r)leung (t...) | c=› } 19:11, 7 October 2017 (UTC)
@Justinrleung: Oh! Thank you. I should've been more careful. Dokurrat (talk) 19:50, 7 October 2017 (UTC)
@Dokurrat: No worries! — justin(r)leung (t...) | c=› } 19:59, 7 October 2017 (UTC)


Can I put Peng'im in Thailand-MN-T because some words have no Han form? --Octahedron80 (talk) 03:03, 16 October 2017 (UTC)

@Octahedron80: Ideally not. If you don't know the hanzi, you can write it as a comment on the same line. — justin(r)leung (t...) | c=› } 03:05, 16 October 2017 (UTC)
I didn't say that I don't know. I know that it has no written from. For example, บะหมี่ (bamii, [肉]面) บะจ่าง (bacaang, [肉]粽) บะช่อ (bachor, [肉]?) ซาลาเปา (saalaapao, ??包), there is no word for บะ (ba) ช่อ (chor) and ซาลา (saalaa). Equivalent characters of the same meaning also pronounce different: 肉 reads as nêg8 in Teochew against ba. (If I am correct.) --Octahedron80 (talk) 03:11, 16 October 2017 (UTC)
@Octahedron80: บะ is also written as (bhah4, as you can see in the entry). ช่อ is written as (per Thai Wikipedia). ซาลาเปา seems to be written as 沙拉包 per Google search results. That's why you can't be sure there's no written form. — justin(r)leung (t...) | c=› } 03:29, 16 October 2017 (UTC)
About ซาลาเปา, I think 沙拉包 is back transcription to Mandarin. Is it legal to put? --Octahedron80 (talk) 03:34, 16 October 2017 (UTC)
@Octahedron80: I think so. Taiwanese Min Nan and Hakka has similar problems with Japanese loans. — justin(r)leung (t...) | c=› } 03:36, 16 October 2017 (UTC)


Can you please check the Cantonese pronunciation of this entry if you are willing to? Dokurrat (talk) 01:46, 17 October 2017 (UTC)

No ming4 jyun6 ? 😲 Dokurrat (talk) 01:49, 17 October 2017 (UTC)
@Dokurrat I've only heard of ming4 wun4, the most common pronunciation, I believe; the Multi-function Chinese Character Database also says this is the recommended reading, and jyun4 is its variant. I'm unsure about jyun6. I'll see if I can find some more info from other sources. — justin(r)leung (t...) | c=› } 01:58, 17 October 2017 (UTC)
@Justinrleung: Thank you ! As for me, I only have see this word in written form but neither have I heard it nor have I spoken it, in Mandarin. But I have a wild guess that the Mandarin pronunciation ming2yuan4 is a very unpopular pronunciation, if not a only-seen-in-dictionary one... Dokurrat (talk) 02:13, 17 October 2017 (UTC)
@Dokurrat: Now that I think of it, I believe I've only heard of it in the TVB drama called 名媛望族. 朗文中文新詞典 does say it's pronounced as jyun6 when used in this compound, so I've added it. — justin(r)leung (t...) | c=› } 02:36, 17 October 2017 (UTC)
@Justinrleung: Thank you ! Dokurrat (talk) 02:46, 17 October 2017 (UTC)
@Dokurrat: No problem! I'm not sure if you can see Youtube, but I did find some clips from China (I think) that use míngyuán ([3] [4] [5]), which would support your guess. — justin(r)leung (t...) | c=› } 02:48, 17 October 2017 (UTC)
@Justinrleung: Roger ! Dokurrat (talk) 02:50, 17 October 2017 (UTC)