Reconstruction talk:Proto-Germanic/sūz
Latest comment: 9 years ago by Nayrb Rellimer in topic Forms
Dutch has zeug and in dialects zog. Is that from a different stem because of the -g? If so what is the fao version doing here. It also has the -g. Jcwf (talk) 15:23, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
- I've added a link to the form that is the ancestor of the Dutch word. The Faroese -gv is very different, it is a specific Faroese change that is also found in other words. —CodeCat 15:44, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
- OK thanks! Jcwf (talk) 16:54, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
Forms[edit]
Kroonen gives the PIE paradigm as nom. *suHs, acc. *suHm̥, giving PGmc *sūz and *suwų(< *suwum). He also mentions a "sporadic shift" of -w- to -g- between -u- and another high vowel, which gave *sug- with leveling. The root *suw- he states also gave Old Norse *suggva, giving Norwegian sugge and Elfdalian sugga, probably also Swedish sugga but he doesn't mention that one. Anglom (talk) 19:32, 20 June 2014 (UTC)
- I have read Kroonen's reconstruction as well; however, I don't know how to translate it into the modified Don Ringe orthography standard for wiktionary. The sequence /uw/ is supposed to be written as /ū/ as in *būaną (to dwell, reside), but how would I write the sequence /uwu/? Was this sequence even valid in Proto-Germanic phonology? If the sequence /owo/ earlier in the history of Proto-Germanic contracted to /ō/, then would the same thing happen to the sequence /uwu/ contracting it to /ū/? In the word for eyebrow, Don ringe has *brūwō. What does this say about how to write the accusative case of *sūz?Nayrb Rellimer (talk) 00:18, 19 August 2014 (UTC)
- We shouldn't assume that the PIE form would have been inherited directly. There would almost certainly have been analogical levelling. Purely phonologically, the inherited accusative would be *sūn, in which no nasal vowel had been formed because it had only one syllable (compare *þan). But that would be an unusual situation so it would most likely have been levelled to *sų̄ or perhaps *sūwų. Still it's hard to say. —CodeCat 00:24, 19 August 2014 (UTC)
- After reading Don Ringe's list of sound changes again and comparing them with Kroonen's suggestion of "sporadic change of w to g between high vowels," as a solution to the alternate noun *sugō, the change of w to g seems analogical rather than phonologically regular. Ringe does however mention a change of /gʷ/ to /w/ or /g/, but never a change of /w/ to /g/ or vice versa.Nayrb Rellimer (talk) 00:46, 19 August 2014 (UTC)
- We shouldn't assume that the PIE form would have been inherited directly. There would almost certainly have been analogical levelling. Purely phonologically, the inherited accusative would be *sūn, in which no nasal vowel had been formed because it had only one syllable (compare *þan). But that would be an unusual situation so it would most likely have been levelled to *sų̄ or perhaps *sūwų. Still it's hard to say. —CodeCat 00:24, 19 August 2014 (UTC)