Talk:łéʼétsoh

Etymology

Does this word come from łéʼé (not sure if this is a word) + tsoh ("big")? 71.66.97.228 20:07, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

It is from łį́į́ʼ (horse) + tsoh. —Stephen ^(Talk) 22:02, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

Why is a rat called "large horse," and why does the pronunciation of horse change so radically in this context? 71.66.97.228 22:09, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

Also, isn't horse łį́į́ʼ, not łįįʼ? 71.66.97.228 22:13, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

Yes, it is łį́į́ʼ. It is not that a rat is called a horse, but that łį́į́ʼ is an ancient word for a kind of animal and was applied to rats for centuries before horses ever came to America. Horses were named after rats. Navajo has a lot of sound mutations and it takes an indepth study of the sound system and the mechanics of fusion to begin to understand what happens. A dictionary can’t offer much help with phonology and mutations other than to mention them. —Stephen ^(Talk) 08:38, 11 December 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, if the rat word came first and rats are smaller than horses, wouldn't łį́į́ʼ mean "rat" and the one with "tsoh" mean the horse, because horses are much larger than rats? I just want to understand the logic in the evolution of these animal names. 71.66.97.228 09:13, 11 December 2010 (UTC)

Language is not always predicated on logic. They called rats łéʼétsoh, then when horses arrived, it seemed silly to say łéʼétsohtsoh, so they called them łį́į́ʼ. Baby horses are łéʼéyázhí. —Stephen ^(Talk) 10:08, 11 December 2010 (UTC)

Thanks again; if the rat is a "big" (tsoh) łéʼé, is łéʼé a smaller animal that the rat was originally named after? 71.66.97.228 19:17, 11 December 2010 (UTC)

łį́į́ʼ, not łéʼé. —Stephen ^(Talk) 21:06, 11 December 2010 (UTC)

The question is, before the horse came to North America, was the animal the rat was named after ("X 'tsoh'"), called łį́į́ʼ? If so, what was this łį́į́ʼ animal--some mammal smaller than a rat? 71.66.97.228 22:05, 11 December 2010 (UTC)

Who knows? That was centuries ago, and Navajo was an unwritten language until 1950. All we can be sure of is what the words mean today. When languages are unwritten, there are no records and all the people who knew and used the words back then have passed on without comment. —Stephen ^(Talk) 22:43, 11 December 2010 (UTC)