User talk:Stephen G. Brown

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July 2017[edit]

Two German nouns[edit]

Hi Stephen. The German nouns Bessarabiendeutscher and Wolhyniendeutscher have adjective templates in their declension sections. Is this correct? If not, could you correct them please. SemperBlotto (talk) 15:15, 4 July 2017 (UTC)

I believe this is correct. If I remember correctly, nominalized adjectives in German are inflected like the adjectives themselves. — Z. [ קהת ] b"A. — 17:45, 4 July 2017 (UTC)
Noun and adjective are two separate words: Bessarabiendeutscher (noun) and bessarabiendeutsch (adjective).
And Wolhyniendeutscher (noun) and wolhyniendeutsch (adjective).
Their declensions are correct, though. I guess it's just a minor hiccough in template naming. —Stephen (Talk) 10:12, 5 July 2017 (UTC)
OK thanks. My bot doesn't know what to do with them - I'll just ignore them. SemperBlotto (talk) 10:16, 5 July 2017 (UTC)

Telugu frequency list[edit]

The Appendix:Sanskrit frequency list 1 is very good and useful. Can you help me and prepare the Appendix:Telugu frequency list. This would help me to give priority for creating new pages of more importance. Thank you.Rajasekhar1961 (talk) 06:14, 18 July 2017 (UTC)

I searched for Telugu frequency lists, but I did not find any. I have left an inquiry at WT:GP#Frequency list. They say that they can get a list of Telugu words used in the articles of the Telugu Wikipedia. I do not know what form it will be in or how useful it will be. —Stephen (Talk) 22:33, 18 July 2017 (UTC)
Your initiative has given the list of 10,000 Telugu words in the order of frequency in Telugu Wikipedia articles. As pointed out, I am not going to create an entry for every word. But it helps me a lot in my work. Thank you very much sir.Rajasekhar1961 (talk) 12:53, 19 July 2017 (UTC)

Abuse of blocking and page-deleting powers by SemperBlotto; de-cratting and de-sysopping required[edit]

According to the wiktionary page Help:Dispute resolution, under the section "another user", I should report this type of thing to "a friendly administrator". The offender in this case is himself an administrator, and even a bureaucrat, and must be stripped of his powers for abusing them, so I must report his misconduct to bureaucrats (who have the power to edit user rights). The following is the situation:

I recently created my userpage before I started editting the mainspace.
My userpage was simply this:

" ====================>

-looks like a spear "

That's an ASCII graphic of a spear, and it's perfectly fine for a userpage.
SemperBlotto deleted my userpage, and, in the deletion summary, he stated "no usable content given"- a policy which applies only to word/term articles, not userpages, so apparently SemperBlotto mistook my userpage for a word/term entry. My username could be mistaken for a word/term entry, so that is certainly possible.

I re-created my userpage, noting in my edit summary that SemperBlotto carelessly mistook my userpage for a word entry.
I figured that that would be the end of it; problem solved.

But, to my surprise, SemperBlotto felt that his sense of dominance was violated by me pointing out his error (or deliberate act of violating the page deletion policy, as it probably was), so he re-asserted his sense of dominance by deleting my userpage yet again, and by blocking me for 31 hours, and by giving the false and defamatory block explanation "adding nonsense/gibberish".

Dominance-asserting aggression is the single worst possible use of any form of power, and any person who uses power for that purpose should be stripped of that power, and severely punished. Due to the failure of legislatures to pass the appropriate penal laws for abuses of wiki administrator powers, SemperBlotto does not face the possibility of any real-world punishment for his offenses; but he must, at the very least, be stripped of his administrator and bureaucrat privileges by a fellow bureaucrat, such as yourself, so that he can no longer abuse his page-deletion and blocking powers for the purpose of dominance-asserting aggression.

Miraculous Spear (talk) 00:05, 31 July 2017 (UTC)

While I wouldn't have deleted the page myself, and I wish he had shown some tact in this case, he wasn't completely wrong in deleting the user page, and it certainly doesn't merit the drastic actions you're requesting.
First of all, we have a very strict policy on user pages that's quite different from Wikipedia's: as a smaller project, we get a lot of people whose only action here is to set up a user page just like they have on Wikipedia, with all the bells and whistles. Having planted their flag in the provinces, they go back to Wikipedia. The consensus here is that a user page is solely for the purpose of helping you do dictionary work by showing what you have to offer the project, among other things. We don't allow user boxes (except for directly dictionary-related one's like Babel) and we frown on most personal stuff for people who haven't contributed anything here (we're much more relaxed once someone has shown that they're not just here to show off their user page).
It's also important to know that patrolling new edits here is a monumental and thankless task, and SemperBlotto does more of it than anyone. It involves scanning through hundreds of edits every day, most of which are in languages you don't speak, and looking for a small percentage of carefully-hidden attempts to delete content, add nonsense, slant things to a particular point of view, attack people, or plant spam/advertising. It's very hard to keep positive and polite when all of this is going on, and you know that some of it is always going to get by you. It also doesn't help that some of the worst editors are the most likely to complain if anyone does anything to their edits. In other words, I think you're misreading this by saying it's about dominance, rather than simple grumpiness.
As I said, I don't wholly approve of the actions in question, and I really appreciate that you're already making contributions here, but you're asking for a lot. Chuck Entz (talk) 01:15, 31 July 2017 (UTC)
@Miraculous Spear, you have misunderstood. I can tell by what you wrote that you expect Wiktionary to be much more like Wikipedia. Wiktionary is not at all like Wikipedia. Please see Wiktionary:Wiktionary for Wikipedians. For one thing, Wikipedians put all sorts of things in their user pages. I think they refer to them as "vanity" pages. On Wiktionary, we use our user pages for information that other editors need to know about us to judge our edits, areas of specialization, and areas of competence, including natural languages spoken (Babel box), computer languages, alphabets and scripts, formal education, etc. We do not permit the popular Wikipedia boxes such as "this user plays scrabble," "this user eats broccoli," or "this user is a Marxist." The ASCII spear graphic might have been overlooked if you had first included useful information, such as the languages you speak and your competence in them.
Maratha Soldier.jpg
The next misunderstanding, where you thought it was all about asserting dominance, was actually what we consider wheel warring. When an admin reverts or deletes a new editor's entry, you must not ignore the action and revert it. You should have tried to find out why your entry was deleted, and then avoid making that mistake in the future.
You are welcome to re-create your user page, but make sure that what you put in it is useful to the rest of us so that we can make a judgment regarding your edits. You can also include links, reminders, notes to self, and so on, that you need for the work you do here. For example, if you want to keep a list of pages that you intend to work on, or links to special resources that you like. Most people probably would not understand your ASCII spear, and it could be a distraction. You might include an image of a spear if you feel you can't live without it, but make the rest of what you include on your userpage helpful to the rest of us in understanding the quality of your edits. —Stephen (Talk) 02:28, 31 July 2017 (UTC)

@SemperBlotto is there anything in particular about this account that justified a block without warning for an edit to their own user page? If not, you deserve a firm trout slapping. bd2412 T 19:37, 6 August 2017 (UTC)

I can't remember that far back. SemperBlotto (talk) 19:49, 6 August 2017 (UTC)
Well, don't block newbs without warning. Consider yourself trout-slapped. bd2412 T 20:20, 6 August 2017 (UTC)

August 2017[edit]

User:Dick Laurent[edit]

User:Dick Laurent, on whose Talk page you just pinged me, seems to have made a repeated habit of reverting pages without providing justification for doing so, and being uncommunicative and downright flippant when asked why they are doing so. Since you are an administrator who pinged me on their Discussion page, I am first appealing to you to get them to stop. I do not see there being any sort of consensus reachable by talking to them, unfortunately, as there has been no attempt on their part to communicate even when pressed. Ligata (talk) 05:39, 2 August 2017 (UTC)

Editors who come here from Wikipedia often have trouble understanding why we do things as we do. On en.wikipedia there are over 2000 admins (last time I looked), plus a huge number of checkers. Here we have only a small handful of admins (I think around 20 active admins), and these few admins do the vast majority of the work here, from writing templates and modules, to creating entries, checking and verifying edits, patrolling for vandalism, etc. Our tiny panel of admins has to deal with many, many new entries from anons and others who only edit once or a few times and then quit, so we don't have the time for hundreds or even thousands of discussions every day (especially since most of the anons never reply). When it's really important to an editor to know the reason for a revert, he has to ask (politely, not angrily). I'm afraid you got on Dick's bad side from the moment of first contact. The title you chose for your comment was based on a misunderstanding of how we work.
I glanced at the disputed edit, and I'm afraid I can't be of much help. You want to add the word queer and something about pink. Dick is gay, so I suppose he took umbrage at your edit. If you had approached him with some calm civility, he probably would have explained. I can't explain the revert, since I'm not gay. The word queer does strike me as gratuitously offensive, and the pink thing was just strange, meaningless to me, so.... —Stephen (Talk) 06:36, 2 August 2017 (UTC)
Queer has not been offensive in decades; calling it a slur in 2017 is absurd, but it's also clear that I was showing a specific example of where גאה was being translated as queer; I didn't just add it to insult this user. Ligata (talk) 08:35, 3 August 2017 (UTC)
As far as pinkwashing goes you are literally on a dictionary site. Ligata (talk) 08:36, 3 August 2017 (UTC)
Apart from this I just went to remove the translation "gay" because it is not synonymous with LGBT (whereas queer ironically is), and found that it had been locked. Equating gay with LGBT is offensive to bisexual and transgender people, and to favor the word "gay" over "queer" as a synonym for LGBT demonstrates a high degree of entitlement on the part of those who do so. Ligata (talk) 08:42, 3 August 2017 (UTC)
And sorry for so many messages but there is a very good discussion of the word queer in this English-Arabic gender term dictionary. The offensive sense of the word is very 1990s. I grew up being called it as a slur, but no one does anymore because it's become one of the main identities that non-heteronormative people choose to go by. Ligata (talk) 08:54, 3 August 2017 (UTC)
Since it is sensitive, why are you pushing for your edits? Why don't you just move on and stop wasting everybody's time? Dick has edited for his reasons. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 08::::57, 3 August 2017 (UTC)
Because the page, as it stands, is offensive. It uses LGBT synonymously with gay. I am not wasting people's time; I am trying to improve the dictionary by correcting such erasure. I am not even pushing for queer at this point, only for the removal of the term gay as a synonym for LGBT. Ligata (talk) 09:03, 3 August 2017 (UTC)
Like I'm not making this stuff up out of nowhere; there is a high degree of discourse you can find on why "the gay community" is problematic and why queer is actually less problematic. Ligata (talk) 09:05, 3 August 2017 (UTC)
And look at the edit history. I asked for an explanation politely the first time he reverted my revert. The second time he did so it was clear he had not the slightest interest in explaining his actions, so I responded appropriately to this entitled way of editing. Ligata (talk) 10:12, 3 August 2017 (UTC)
This user is now being even more arbitrary, deleting the translation "LGBT" that is still attested in one of the given examples on the basis that he personally disagrees with the translation. What ever happened to the process of requesting verification? I'm sure more attestations could be drug up with sufficient time, but this user is acting as a dictator who thinks they are the absolute authority on the Hebrew language. Ligata (talk) 13:39, 3 August 2017 (UTC)
You're wasting your time trying to discuss it with me. As I mentioned above, I know little about the subject and am not competent to make judgments concerning it. You need to discuss it with Dick Laurent if you can get him to discuss it with you. After your antagonistic comments, I rather doubt that he will cooperate with you. —Stephen (Talk) 00:26, 4 August 2017 (UTC)

Telugu poetic tems[edit]

I have created some Telugu poetic terms in the lines similar to ఒప్పులకుప్పా (oppulakuppā). They are చెలియా (celiyā), రాజా (rājā). I have a small doubt. These words are also the alternative vocative singular case forms of చెలియ (celiya) and రాజు (rāju) respectively. How to add this in their pages. Kindly advise.Rajasekhar1961 (talk) 05:45, 9 August 2017 (UTC)

You can do it as I did in చెలియ (celiya), using {{vocative singular of}}. Or you can put it like this instead: ''alternative [[vocative]] singular of'' '''{{l|te|చెలియ}}'''. —Stephen (Talk) 03:58, 10 August 2017 (UTC)
According to the grammarians, these vocative forms should be ఓ చెలియా (ō celiyā), ఓ రాజా (ō rājā); similar to ఓ శివా (ō śivā); ఓ రామా (ō rāmā). Can we consider these as synonyms.Rajasekhar1961 (talk) 13:41, 10 August 2017 (UTC)
Synonym means "having the same meaning", so if చెలియ (celiya) can mean the same as ఓ చెలియా (ō celiyā), then they are synonyms. —Stephen (Talk) 15:48, 10 August 2017 (UTC)


Hey Stephen. Thanks for the edits on vien, val, quier, faz. I never knew about those apocopic verb forms in Spanish. In Catalan conjugations, I'd expect forms like above, so it's interesting to find out about this piece of grammar. --WF on Holiday (talk) 12:27, 9 August 2017 (UTC)

Yes, it's interesting. You've heard of Latinate English, which is heavy with Latin-based words (such as apian, corvine, aural, ocular, ungual, stellar, sororal, uxorial, igneous, portal, arboreal, paludal, tintinnabulary, sartorial, acerbic, adipose, aedile, subimago, eruginous, aestivation, estuary, alacrity, ancillary, equanimous, gibbous, homuncular, jejunal, cislunar, lupine, and so on) ... Spanish can also be Latinized. The difference is that many people find Latinate English difficult to understand, tiring to read, and generally weak. They don't like it. On the other hand, Spanish-speakers are impressed by Latinized Spanish, even if they have trouble understanding it. If a company wants to make an important contract pop, they Latinize it. It's also useful for poetry. —Stephen (Talk) 03:32, 10 August 2017 (UTC)
Good. That was a list of really ugly English words. As for Spanish, the legal world is an area we haven't really explored much in WT. Category:es:Law isn't badly populated, but could be bigger. This is probably because it's very advanced stuff. But I'm sure one day I'll find a nice list of Spanish legal terms and add a few. And perhaps there should be a mention of the future subjunctive, only really found these days in legal Spanish and a handful of set expressions (I don't remember those OTTOMH, maybe you can jog my memory...). Anyway, before I start rambling, I'll leave you. --WF back from hols (talk) 19:39, 10 August 2017 (UTC)
If you see a Spanish future subjunctive, it probably will be following a verb that requires a subordinate verb in the subjunctive (wishes, emotions, impersonal expressions, recommendations, doubt/denial, and ojalá). Usually these verbs are followed by que, occasionally by quien or como, and finally the subjunctive verb:
agradecer que, no tener que, mandar que, desear que, preferir que, no encontrar que, exigir que, insistir que, buscar que, pedir que, necesitar que, esperar que, querer que, no haber que
alegrarse de que, quejarse que, lamentar que, enojar que, sorprender que, molestar que, tener miedo de que, gustar que, encantar que, sentir que, maravillar que, estar contento que, estar enojado que, estar triste que, temer que, extrañarse que
impersonal expressions:
es necesario que, es extraño que, no es cierto que, es probable que, es agradable que, es bueno que, es curioso que, es raro que, es dudoso que, es recomendable que, es esencial que, es una lástima que, es estupendo que, es urgente que, es vergonzoso que, es importante que, no es cierto que, es increíble que, no es hecho que, es malo que, no es verdad que
aconsejar que, sugerir que, ordenar que, dejar que, hacer que, mandar que, recomendar que, proponer que, decir que, rogar que, exigir que, insistir que, prohibir que, suplicar que
dudar que, no pensar que, no estar seguro que, no comprender que, no creer que, negar que, no suponer que, no parecer que
One of these verb phrases in the main clause is in the indicative mood, then a relative pronoun (usually que) connects to the noun clause or dependent clause, and then if the English dependent verb is future tense, the Spanish will be future subjunctive:
No creo que vinieren mis padres.
I don't think my parents will come. —Stephen (Talk) 02:53, 12 August 2017 (UTC)

Telugu adjectives[edit]

అయిన (ayina) and ఐన (aina) are added to Telugu nouns to convert them to adjectives. Example: విలువైన (viluvaina) and విలువయిన (viluvayina) meaning valuable. What are these words. Are they postpositions or suffixes. There are many adjectives with this endings. Thank you.Rajasekhar1961 (talk) 05:53, 12 August 2017 (UTC)

References: అయిన and ఐన] both are derived from అగు (agu, to become).Rajasekhar1961 (talk) 06:33, 12 August 2017 (UTC)
I think that అయిన (ayina) and ఐన (aina) are past participles. A past participle is a verb form that is often used like an adjective: stolen (from steal) ... a stolen car; broken (from break} ... a broken arm; required (from require) ... the required documents. —Stephen (Talk) 09:52, 13 August 2017 (UTC)
I have created the pages for అయిన and ఐన. Are they correct.Rajasekhar1961 (talk) 19:19, 12 August 2017 (UTC)
I made a small change. I think they are good. —Stephen (Talk) 09:52, 13 August 2017 (UTC)
Thank you sir.Rajasekhar1961 (talk) 06:04, 14 August 2017 (UTC)
In similar lines, తగిన (tagina), తగని (tagani) are also used to convert verb తగు (tagu) to adjectives. but are they present participles or past participles. తగని is mentioned as negative participle. The reference: తగు. I have created pages for these entries.Rajasekhar1961 (talk) 19:00, 14 August 2017 (UTC)
I think these are present participles. In general, the past participle in English ends in -ed (example: an accomplished deed, a deed that was accomplished), and the present participle in English often ends in -ing (example: running water, water that is running). Tha pages you have created look good to me. —Stephen (Talk) 06:14, 15 August 2017 (UTC)


Hi, Stephen: I had to create a new account for Wiktionary after both forgetting my original password and not linking a working email address for this. Might you remove me from "autopatrollers" for the time being and insert a move/redirect from "Reidca" to "MDCorebear"?. Thank you! MDCorebear (talk) 19:18, 22 August 2017 (UTC)

Done. —Stephen (Talk) 20:05, 22 August 2017 (UTC)

«amiga mía»[edit]

Is it preferable to say ‘amiga mía’ in your translation because it makes specific use of the vocative case? I know that it’s a tough question; you don’t have to answer it elaborately if you don’t know how to. — (((Romanophile))) (contributions) 07:37, 29 August 2017 (UTC)

I don't think it's because of the vocative case, although I can't completely rule it out. I think it's something like we have in English where we can say, "see ya later, pal of mine", while "see ya later, my pal" sounds less natural. Of course, in English we'd normally say "see ya later, pal", but that's the trouble with trying to equate Spanish with English. In Spanish, the possessive pronoun is needed, either mi or mío. I really have never heard a good explanation for this. Some people say that amigo mío makes the relationship closer, but I don't think that's right. Or possibly makes it stand out for being less used. Whatever it is, eventually you start to develop a feel for it. —Stephen (Talk) 07:54, 29 August 2017 (UTC)
I keep thinking of buen viaje a México, mi amigo versus buen viaje a México, amigo mío... I sort of sense that buen viaje a México, mi amigo sounds slightly sarcastic, and that he is perhaps not really a friend, and maybe he isn't actually wishing him well. OTOH, buen viaje a México, amigo mío seems heartfelt and literal. Spanish is often spoken with very sweet words that really have the opposite meaning, and therefore vicious and nasty. Like one woman telling another that her hair is so lovely and her dress is just beautiful, but meaning exactly the opposite, that her hair is like a mop and her dress makes her look like a slut. Spanish-speakers can kill with the prettiest words. —Stephen (Talk) 20:13, 29 August 2017 (UTC)
Geez, Steve, get a room. — Z. [ קהת ] b"A. — 03:39, 30 August 2017 (UTC)
All in due course. —Stephen (Talk) 22:57, 30 August 2017 (UTC)


A comprehensive index of resources for ancient languages: Lexicity. —Stephen (Talk) 23:02, 30 August 2017 (UTC)

Also, Palaeolexicon. Includes the following dictionaries: Eteocypriot, Hattic, Hittite, Linear B, Lydian, Carian, Cappadocian Greek, C. Luwian, Cypriot, Old Norse, Proto-Albanian, Proto-Altaic, Palaic, Phrygian, Pre-Celtic, Proto-Indo-European, Proto-Kartvelian, Proto-Semitic, Proto-Turkic, Safaitic, Thracian, Tocharian A, Tocharian B, Urartian. —Stephen (Talk) 21:35, 12 October 2017 (UTC)

Incorrect accents in Russian[edit]

Hi Stephen. You made a few mistakes adding accent marks to the Russian quote at здешний (diff). I have fixed it (diff). Please be more careful. It's better not to have accents than to have the wrong accents. --WikiTiki89 15:04, 5 September 2017 (UTC)

I felt like дворя́не was correct, like англичане, but starling.rinet said it was дворяне́. Starling.rinet apparently made a mistake. As for старину, I think it can have three different stress patterns, including ста́рину and старину́. —Stephen (Talk) 19:10, 5 September 2017 (UTC)

Indigenes and telecommunications[edit]

Is there a tendency amongst Natives in Australia, the Americas, and elsewhere to intentionally avoid advanced technologies like telephones and computers? The few indigenes with whom I’ve spoken seem to resent much of modern technology, and the ones who don’t seem to have lost their connexions with their tribes, having more‐or‐less assimilated into European cultures. — (((Romanophile))) (contributions) 22:34, 10 September 2017 (UTC)

In my experience, no. They like the cellphones, computers, smartphones, etc., but many of them are extremely poor. Among the Navajo, there are still many people who live in self-built one-room homes without electricity or running water. So the cost of internet connections, etc., is often a problem. Even now, their reservations often do not have sufficient access to water sources. The Standing Rock Sioux have only one source of water, and Trump and the Republicans are building an oil pipeline over it (the pipelines always fail eventually), so that source will become poisoned before long. The Navajos depend on several rivers including the San Juan River. The San Juan was recently poisoned by a huge accidental release of toxic acid mine waste (including lead and arsenic), and thousands of Navajo farmers and ranchers have been left without any water for their crops and animals. Trump has seen to it that the EPA has ignored this disaster and there are no plans for cleanup. Most Navajo who were not affected by the toxic mine spill nevertheless have only one gallon of water per day for cooking, cleaning, and bathing. This all makes having internet access very difficult.
Also, when they can manage to pay for access, they are targeted by scammers, since the Native Americans are often unsophisticated and unworldly. They are very traditional and are solidly against the use of any sort of pornography, yet when they search online, even just on Facebook, they often get porn sent to their phones by malware or robots, and for them it is intolerable. So they don't intentionally avoid advanced technologies, but there are huge barriers placed in their way, and the Republicans continually try to steal what little they have and take advantage of them. —Stephen (Talk) 23:01, 10 September 2017 (UTC)


Any chance you could make an entry for dícese. I remember you doing a great job with a similar véndese or rómpase or something --Pickyevent (talk) 18:18, 27 September 2017 (UTC)

Done. —Stephen (Talk) 15:11, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

October 2017[edit]

How's your Lao?[edit]

Hey. I assume it is better than mine...If you know some, fancy clearing out the last 11 Lao entries in Category:Tbot entries (Lao)? --P5Nd2 (talk) 11:43, 10 October 2017 (UTC)

I used to work on these, but the special requirements and formatting of Lao, Thai, and Burmese entries has reached a level that makes it difficult to get everything right, so I don't do them anymore. I think Atitarev does them when he has time. —Stephen (Talk) 14:12, 10 October 2017 (UTC)
Stephen, don't be scared. You can still edit Lao with as simple {{lo-noun}} (which uses autotranslit or fails in rare case but without errors). Please see ໂທລະສັບ (thō la sap). Lao entries are the simplest so far, no tones are used but modules require attention, not 100% can be be auto-transliterated. It's a pity you stopped editing in Asian languages with your knowledge. It's more important than just adding random requests in the translation requests page, IMHO. I agree Burmese is tricky but I learned a bit now, thanks to User:Wyang and User:Angr but Thai just uses phonetic respellings. With Khmer, in the future, we could probably employ dual transliteration, similar to Burmese - one phonemic, fully automated and one using phonetic respellings - to render the pronunciation more accurately and show variants. I normally don't do Lao, just Thai and Burmese but I can add Lao translations if I find an unambiguous source.
Sorry but User:P5Nd2 should probably stop polling around and telling people what they should do and add a user page stating, which languages he or she speaks. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 12:30, 17 October 2017 (UTC)
According to the deleted history of User:Wonderfool/Languages, he's en-native, fr-3, de-1, es-1. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 12:34, 17 October 2017 (UTC)
That was like 10 years ago though, right? WF seems to know Catalan and Spanish pretty well. —Aryaman (मुझसे बात करो) 16:36, 17 October 2017 (UTC)
@Atitarev, then I may give it a try. I had assumed you were adding tones since ກວຽນ displays the tone. —Stephen (Talk) 05:53, 18 October 2017 (UTC)
Thank you. No, I haven't touched this entry - history. In fact, I am not compfortable with Lao tones. The tones (the IPA) were added by User:Widsith in the very first edit - this revision. --06:10, 18 October 2017 (UTC)
I agree with Anatoli. It's a shame to see someone so talented be so afraid. —suzukaze (tc) 06:42, 18 October 2017 (UTC)
@Suzukaze-c: Stephen got very upset with entry deletions in the past. I learned to live with my entries being deleted or edits reverted but Stephen got really disappointed and stopped editing in a number of languages he could make great contributions. As for user P5Nd2, I noticed he polled with a number of users asking to get rid of Tbot entries. No idea if he's also Wonderfool. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 06:52, 18 October 2017 (UTC)
Lol, yes, he's Wonderfool. And he has been polling around trying to clean out the Tbot entries. But strangely, it's actually working. People are cleaning them up, and the cleanup categories are getting deleted. Of course, however, new and even longer cleanup lists are appearing faster than the old ones are disappearing. --P5Nd2 (talk) 15:37, 27 October 2017 (UTC)

Wiktionary:Cherokee transliteration[edit]

The image I added is of course better than what was already there, but I thought I'd notify you of this page's existence so you can improve it as you see fit. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 17:19, 24 November 2017 (UTC)

Thanks, looks good. —Stephen (Talk) 22:42, 24 November 2017 (UTC)

December 2017[edit]

sentose and sentóse[edit]

Hi Stephen. Another tricky question about obsolete Spanish. Both sentose and sentóse were extremely common centuries ago. I'm surprised to see sentóse, as it goes against the general rule for accents in Spanish. Any enlightenment? --Lirafafrod (talk) 12:34, 5 December 2017 (UTC)

It is an archaic style to append se and other pronouns to the end of verb forms in the indicative or subjunctive mood (sentose instead of se sentó). You'll see it used, for example, in old poems and in the Spanish Bible. Until very recently, the rule for adding object and reflexive pronouns to indicative verb forms was that accents must be added as needed to obey the rules of accentuation: dijo, díjole; but that existing accents were always to be retained: sentó, sentóse, halló, hallóla.
Then the RAE promulgated a new spelling reform (I don't remember the year... I think around 1990), saying that these redundant accents on verb forms were no longer to be used. Even though this was antiquated Spanish, the rules still applied, and when old texts were reprinted, the redundant accents were dropped.
I never liked this ruling, because the redundant accents made these old verb forms unmistakable and you knew instantly that they were verb forms with pronouns and not some unfamiliar nouns. Other examples are:
besóme, hallóla, holgóse, levantóse, rogóle, despidióse, mandóle, quedóse, ayudólo, metióse, revelóme, llevóselo, perdióse, oyóla, negóse, dejóle, reclinóse, respondióle, quedéme, olvidéme, déte, perdíte, fuése, levantéme, rindióse, metíme, cobríme, víle.
When you delete the redundant accents, many of them, being unfamiliar, started to look a lot like nouns:
besome, hallola, holgose, levantose, rogole, despidiose, mandole, quedose, ayudolo, metiose, revelome, perdiose, oyola, negose, dejole, reclinose, respondiole, quedeme, olvideme, dete, perdite, fuese, levanteme, rindiose, metime, cobrime, vile. —Stephen (Talk) 06:58, 6 December 2017 (UTC)
Thanks SGB! I thought the pesky RAE might have done something like that. There are a least a couple of nouns out there that are actually these old verb forms - el acabose comes to mind, but I've come across another couple somewhere. Anyway, regarding WT, I imagine we could put sentose and sentóse as alternative spellings of each other, or maybe add a little usage note somewhere, a bit like This spelling was a product of the 1990 French spelling reforms..
Also, I like to hear Asturian spoken or see it written down, as it is a lot like obsolete Spanish. --Lirafafrod (talk) 09:54, 6 December 2017 (UTC)
Yes, the accented spellings were the right spellings for a very long time, and now the unaccented ones are right. It's the same as German daß (older spelling) and dass (new spelling). I have searched for the dates of the Spanish spelling reforms, but I can't find a list of them and I'm not certain the 1990 is the correct year. —Stephen (Talk) 22:52, 6 December 2017 (UTC)
It was mentioned in 1999 in this article, but it doesn't mean it was when the rule was laid out. --Lirafafrod (talk) 17:14, 10 December 2017 (UTC)
Yes, 4.7.3. Acentuación de formas verbales con pronombres enclíticos. The rule is expressed there, but I think it implies that it was laid out at an earlier date. I'm just surprised that the reform dates are so hard to find. —Stephen (Talk) 22:23, 10 December 2017 (UTC)
I'm not so surprised. There are probably not many people in the world who care about the reformation dates. Just us amateur lexicogs. --Lirafafrod (talk) 09:52, 12 December 2017 (UTC)
"We've always been at war with Eurasia"... Chuck Entz (talk) 13:26, 12 December 2017 (UTC)

Automated formatting for Navajo entries[edit]

With your blessing, I would like to wrap a number of existing Navajo usage examples in the {{uxi}} template, and perhaps make edits like this. —suzukaze (tc) 11:34, 27 December 2017 (UTC)

Fine, looks okay to me. —Stephen (Talk) 06:12, 28 December 2017 (UTC)

January 2018[edit]


2018 January 1, “Joven de 19 años graba video crítico contra el gobierno de Evo Morales”, in El Deber Bolivia[1]:
"La primera señal que ví que mi país estaba comenzando a decaer fue cuando la Policía, armada, con escudos, gas pimienta y con neptunos, reprimió a estas personas que marchaban desde lejo s; ni siquiera los dejaron entrar a la plaza del pueblo.

Do you know what this is? Some kind of weapon? DTLHS (talk) 02:43, 6 January 2018 (UTC)

carros Neptuno, water cannons, riot control vehicles with water cannons. —Stephen (Talk) 12:36, 6 January 2018 (UTC)


What was your rationale for the reversion of my edit? Tschüss and tschüß are not different words but the same word written with different orthographic conventions. An eszett is equivalent to "ss" as ö is to "oe" and so on. Zacwill (talk) 00:14, 26 January 2018 (UTC)

No, it is not. Tschüß is /tʃyːs/ and tschüss is /tʃʏs/. And even if it were just a different orthographic convention, it would still be the older one. Korn [kʰũːɘ̃n] (talk) 09:44, 26 January 2018 (UTC)
@Zacwill, your problem was with the word "form", nothing more. Rather than deleting the whole phrase, you should have changed "form" to what you thought would have been a better word. In fact, "form" is the word we use in English for this (at least here in Wiktionary). Some people write "color" while others write "colour", and we refer to these as alternative forms. It could as well be alternative spellings, but "form" is official here. (It does not mean that tschüss and tschüß are different words.) By the way, I speak German and I used to live in Germany and I know all about ß, ss, ö, and oe. —Stephen (Talk) 22:10, 26 January 2018 (UTC)


Do you know if this is valid? DTLHS (talk) 22:06, 26 January 2018 (UTC)

It is, but it's misspelled. Moved to buki. —Stephen (Talk) 23:02, 26 January 2018 (UTC)

February 2018[edit]

"до свидания" rollback[edit]

Hello. I believe the rollback is in error, because the version I inserted, informs people about usage. I added the content from the very similar "auf Wiedersehen". до свидания may need some additional work and a translation table, but is not wrong in substance. -Mardus (talk) 15:17, 1 February 2018 (UTC)

It was not wrong in substance, but we only permit translation tables for English words (such as goodbye and see you later). We don't allow translation tables on foreign words (such as до свидания). Also, we have no heading such as "Other literal translations". Wiktionary only allows certain specific headings, including Noun, Verb, Etymology, Pronunciation, Related terms, Derived terms, Usage notes, Declension, Conjugation, Descendants, Synonyms, Antonyms, See also, and some others. See Wiktionary:Entry layout.
The two parts of до свидания have links to pages where they are explained and translated. All pages, including до свидания, need to have an Etymology section, and when that section is added, it will give the meanings of those two words.
It is okay to add examples of usage (as you can see in большой (bolʹšoj)) if needed to show how to use the term. —Stephen (Talk) 15:53, 1 February 2018 (UTC)

Number 3[edit]

Hey. I always find it weird that you still have the link that Wonderfool put at the top of your page back in 2005, although you have changed it and updated it. --Pas un coiffeur (talk) 23:22, 7 February 2018 (UTC)

I think it's an interesting link. This makes it easy to find it when I want to. Besides, it was thoughful of Wonderfool to put it there. —Stephen (Talk) 23:25, 7 February 2018 (UTC)
Meh, I seem to remember it being vaguely trolly. --Pas un coiffeur (talk) 23:29, 7 February 2018 (UTC)
Everybody loves a trolley. —Stephen (Talk) 01:25, 8 February 2018 (UTC)

March 2018[edit]


Hello. I don't want to hassle you with this, but please don't forget that {{etyl}} is deprecated; it's been replaced by {{der}}. Instead of writing {{etyl|zh|km}}, you should write {{der|km|zh|-}}. Thanks! --Per utramque cavernam (talk) 16:47, 5 March 2018 (UTC)

April 2018[edit]

Khmer question from another website[edit]

Hi Stephen. I also use another site called Quora. Maybe you've heard of it, maybe not. Somebody asked a question there I thought you might know the answer to: What is the English name of the animal Cambodians call "chhke char-chark"?

There's some details if you follow the link.

If you're not interested in making an account there I can pass on the answer and credit you as my source.

Aw-kun ch-ran! (-: — hippietrail (talk) 08:20, 14 April 2018 (UTC)

Of course after typing all this up I found it myself (-: ឆ្កែចចក (chkae cɑcɑɑk) - I made a stub. SEALang says it also means "jackal" and "wild dog". I shall that up to your expertise if you feel like tweaking it. Thanks. — hippietrail (talk) 09:11, 14 April 2018 (UTC)
Thanks. Besides wolf and jackal, it more specifically refers to the dhole, a wild dog of Central, South, and Southeast Asia. —Stephen (Talk) 20:42, 14 April 2018 (UTC)

ru: локализация[edit]

Hello - you added (a while ago!) поиск as a synonym in the локализация entry; but поиск means "search", and I do not see how it could be a synonym for "localisation", but I am a Russian beginner, so I'm open to explanation of how I could be wrong. Please check! Thanks. Imaginatorium (talk) 06:49, 21 April 2018 (UTC)

@Imaginatorium: See to localize sense 3: "To determine where something takes place or is to be found." ≈ to search. --Per utramque cavernam (talk) 06:55, 21 April 2018 (UTC)
@Imaginatorium, perhaps you don't understand what локализация means. It means (1) locating something (as in поиск), (2) concentrating something in one place, and (3) the linguistic and cultural adjustment of computer software. —Stephen (Talk) 09:48, 22 April 2018 (UTC)


Hey Stephen. Don't know how good your Bulgarian is, but you're my to-go guy for Cyrillic languages. Would you consider that according to the general rules of the language месех could be transliterated as mesex? --Cien pies 6 (talk) 07:40, 11 May 2018 (UTC)

WT:BG TR [ זכריה קהת ] Zack. — 09:39, 11 May 2018 (UTC)
@Cien pies 6, on en.wiktionary, it's месех (meseh). However, generally speaking, it can be transliterated as meseh, mesex, or mesekh. —Stephen (Talk) 21:35, 11 May 2018 (UTC)
@Wikitiki89 will be glad to hear it. --Cien pies 6 (talk) 09:35, 12 May 2018 (UTC)

June 2018[edit]

Temporary user rights[edit]

Hi Stephen. Sorry to bother you, but I still don't have the admin rights. My user groups are just "autopatrolled", and I can't move pages without leaving a redirect. Thanks, — Julia • formerly Gormflaith • 14:25, 12 June 2018 (UTC)

@Julia, sorry, I made an error. Now fixed. —Stephen (Talk) 21:02, 12 June 2018 (UTC)

Template:l should not wrap new lines[edit]

Template:l should not wrap new lines; it causes Lint errors: Misnested tag with different rendering in HTML5 and HTML4. Use <br> and unwrap the text to one line. See my edit of Wiktionary:Translation requests. Cheers! —Anomalocaris (talk) 16:05, 15 June 2018 (UTC)

I have never seen any errors like that, although I have no idea whether I'm using html4 or html5. That condensed format makes it difficult for the inexperienced (as most of us are) to use texts or edit texts. It would be better to end each line with }}, although that would screw up the automatic transcription. If it's really a problem, I think it would be better to do without transcriptions altogether than to dispense with hard returns. If I'm not going to use automatic transcription, then I don't need to use templates at all. —Stephen (Talk) 22:18, 15 June 2018 (UTC)
{{usex}} should be fine, I think. (@Anomalocaris?) —Suzukaze-c 10:01, 17 June 2018 (UTC)
Responding to Stephen:
  • Lint errors are errors by definition. Not all lint errors cause display issues. For example, using obsolete HTML tags such as <font> doesn't cause display issues, but HTML5 officially doesn't support this tag, and we're all encouraged to use HTML5-compliant markup instead.
  • You can see a page's lint errors, if any, by clicking on "Page Information" in the tools menu on the left side of the page.
  • Wiktionary, like Wikipedia, uses a pre-processor, and, as part of the rollout of HTML5, is changing to a new pre-processor that interprets some markup differently, and displays some things differently. Among the more extreme changes is that the old preprocessor quietly inserted missing end tags, so, for example, a missing </small> tag was quietly supplied at the end of the block, but the new preprocessor doesn't supply the missing end tag, so an unclosed <small> affects everything after it all the way to the end of the page.
  • It is Wiktionary, not you, that is switching from HTML4 to HTML5.
  • There were display issues all along with Template:l wrapping new lines, but perhaps you never paid attention to them. See, for example,,_12_March_2018_(UTC)). The first line of the Marathi text is smaller than succeeding lines. This was an error all along.
  • Yes, lint errors are really a problem, and we should all strive to avoid adding new lint errors.
Responding to Suzukaze-c: I believe {{usex}} also causes lint errors if it wraps around new lines. ―Anomalocaris (talk) 10:24, 17 June 2018 (UTC)
That's pretty technical. I've never heard of lint errors and never noticed Page Information before. I looked at Page Information for this page, but didn't see any information there that seemed useful. In the Marathi example, I could not see the difference in size. There may have been such errors in pages for years, but I just never saw them. I can just avoid using templates for texts that take up more than one line. —Stephen (Talk) 18:22, 18 June 2018 (UTC)
Page information may or may not be interesting. The only time I use it is to verify that lint errors are truly gone. I have a Windows 7 computer, and I viewed the page section in question using every combination of three browsers (Firefox, Chrome, and Internet Explorer) with all six skins, which are set in Preferences on the Appearance tab. In all 3 × 6 = 18 cases, the first line of Marathi appeared smaller than the 4 subsequent lines. However, the font size is equal when I view it on my Android cell phone. How do you access Wiktionary? —Anomalocaris (talk) 22:57, 18 June 2018 (UTC)
Windows 10, Firefox, Vector skin. —Stephen (Talk) 00:52, 19 June 2018 (UTC)


Hey. There's a suffix used in Basque, -zo or -zu apparently, which is described as "un sufijo abundancial". I wanna use abundantial in English, and there are hits for it in some lexicographical books, but I may be missing something more simple. It seems to be like -ous in English, meaning "full of". --Harmonicaplayer (talk) 14:30, 16 June 2018 (UTC)

abundantial is an English word (from Latin), though quite rare. I think the English suffix -y is an abundantial suffix. Consider wormy, flashy, wordy, shady, and so on. Also -ous, though to a lesser degree. —Stephen (Talk) 22:05, 16 June 2018 (UTC)
Cheers, as usual, SGB. --Harmonicaplayer (talk) 09:53, 17 June 2018 (UTC)

Total Arabic roots[edit]

I find out Total Arabic roots and I want to submit on wiktionary how it can possible? thanks. Wakeel Ahmad znjry (talk) 14:53, 25 June 2018 (UTC)

If I understand you correctly, you have a book that contains all Arabic roots? Was this book written by a trusted writer? When was it printed? Is it similar to our ك_ت_ب? —Stephen (Talk) 01:22, 26 June 2018 (UTC)

I really appreciate your form , let me introduce my self , I been working on Arabic language roots since 12 year , I red top of line authors in this regard , I have my own research work ,which I want publish , could you please guide me. Wakeel Ahmad znjry (talk) 17:07, 5 July 2018 (UTC)

We have an incomplete list of Arabic roots at Category:Arabic roots, which you should look at. Also, I think that you could begin by putting all the roots in an appendix. For an example of this, see Appendix:Proto-Mixtec roots. —Stephen (Talk) 17:33, 5 July 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for it.but sorry to say I read your all policies regarding submission contant .I want to tell you Mr Stephen that my work is depends upon 28 books with 404 pages each book.each book have 54000 words , roots with start each alphabet.and then other book start words , roots with second alphabet.and in each book roots words with two constant words root , three constant words and four constant words and next till eight constant words roots which is still not finding in Arabic you can understand now my research you tell me what I do and what is better way to print this work.i hope this work print or publish with my name.and still remain with my name. thanks Wakeel Ahmad znjry (talk) 05:23, 7 July 2018 (UTC)

Is the text in digital format (on a computer disk)? If so, I think you can copy them here. If they are on paper, everything would have to be re-typed or scanned. If pages have to be uploaded as images, then you can do that and each image will include your name. If you have 28 books, each with 404 pages, that would be a huge job of scanning and uploading (11,312 pages in total). There are questions that you have to think about such as copyright. If you publish the books here (Wiktionary), or on Wikipedia, Wikibooks, Wikisource, or anywhere in Wikimedia, the copyright is very liberal, and anyone can use your books free of charge. If you want a more restrictive copyright, you have to use a different place, such as Kindle Direct Publishing.
Here are a couple of possibilities (although I have no experience in this and I cannot guide you). You could think about self-publishing eBooks (or paperbacks) for free with Kindle Direct Publishing.
There is also wikibooks, but again that will take a lot of work, depending on the format that you have the books in (digital or on paper).
It would be good if you could speak to someone who has experience with publishing such a large amount of material. However, I don't know of such a person. There is a lot of information here. —Stephen (Talk) 07:12, 7 July 2018 (UTC)
Another question: are the books in Arabic only, or are the explanations and definitions in English? If they are Arabic only, I think they have to be translated into English. That's 11,312 pages of translation, which would be a gigantic job. It would take years, I think. —Stephen (Talk) 07:16, 7 July 2018 (UTC)

It's all work in digital format and use Arabic alphabet and numerics and English alphabets same like you Arabic roots category Arabic roots.just headings in English infact this work tells a how many roots can be and how Arabic words create. Wakeel Ahmad znjry (talk) 16:18, 7 July 2018 (UTC)

हाथी (hāthī)[edit]

Sorry, I reverted you because that's actually the oblique plural, and it's already in the declension table :) —AryamanA (मुझसे बात करेंयोगदान) 01:47, 31 July 2018 (UTC)

Thanks. I looked for a declension table, but there wasn't one at the time. —Stephen (Talk) 03:27, 31 July 2018 (UTC)