User talk:Stephen G. Brown

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July 2016[edit]

Telugu suffix[edit]

I have created some words with suffix -ట. Are the entries are correct. This is common practice to convert verbs to nouns this way. But some dictionaries (even the Brown's) are not including them (reasons are not clear). I want to make sure before continuing further.Rajasekhar1961 (talk) 10:42, 4 July 2016 (UTC)

Can I use this template : verbal noun of for these entries.--Rajasekhar1961 (talk) 05:46, 5 July 2016 (UTC)
Yes, I think that including words with -ట is a good idea.
And yes, you can use {{verbal noun of|x|lang=te}} for these entries. —Stephen (Talk) 08:16, 5 July 2016 (UTC)
Thank you very much sir. There are other verbal nouns (in Modern Telugu language) formed by adding అటం (aṭaṃ) or అడం (aḍaṃ) to different verbs; ex: తినడం (tinaḍaṃ), చదవడం (cadavaḍaṃ). I would like to create these noun pages also.--Rajasekhar1961 (talk) 11:09, 5 July 2016 (UTC)
Good idea. —Stephen (Talk) 13:15, 5 July 2016 (UTC)

Imperative conjugation of Spanish verbs ending in -venir[edit]

Hi, I have a question about the conjugation of these verbs. I believe the correct forms for venir, venirse, and circunvenir are as follows:

  • venir: ven, venga, vengamos, venid, vengan
  • venirse: vente, véngase, vengámonos, veníos, vénganse
  • circunvenir: circunvén, circunvenga, circunvengamos, circunvenid, circunvengan

For *circunvenirse, would it be circunvente or circúnvente? Similarly for *revenirse, revente or révente? Thanks for any help you might have. DTLHS (talk) 21:14, 5 July 2016 (UTC)

    • You had it mostly correct. Regardless of the prefix, these verbs are all conjugated like venir, with the same syllable stressed for each person as is the case with venir. The only difference is that, by adding prefixes or a suffix, it may be necessary to insert an acute accent in order to get the proper syllable stressed. Ven needs no accent, but circunvén has to have the accent. Venga needs no accent, but véngase has to have one.
    • venir: ven, vení (vos), venga, vengamos, venid, vengan
    • venirse: vente, venite (vos), véngase, vengámonos, veníos, vénganse
    • circunvenir: circunvén, circunvení (vos), circunvenga, circunvengamos, circunvenid, circunvengan
    • circunvenirse: circunvente, circunvenite (vos), circunvéngase, circunvengámonos, circunveníos, circunvénganse
    • convenirse: convente, convenite (vos), convéngase, convengámonos, conveníos, convénganse
    • prevenirse: prevente, prevenite (vos), prevéngase, prevengámonos, preveníos, prevénganse
    • revenirse: revente, revenite (vos), revéngase, revengámonos, reveníos, revénganse —Stephen (Talk) 00:32, 6 July 2016 (UTC)


Hi. Do you know what is the bottom-left character in the logo? It looks like a superimposed X + I.

My best guess is that it could be 𝔛. ("MATHEMATICAL FRAKTUR CAPITAL X")

But I could be wrong. --Daniel Carrero (talk) 12:54, 6 July 2016 (UTC)

It's the Cyrillic letter Ж. Chuck Entz (talk) 13:20, 6 July 2016 (UTC)
That right. The letters in the logo are:
, ,
λ, W, ش
Ж, , ש
shi, sha, mal
L, W, sh
zh, wéi, sh —Stephen (Talk) 05:10, 7 July 2016 (UTC)
Thank you, Chuck and Stephen. I added the list to Help:FAQ, under the question: "What are the characters in the logo?"
Before you replied, I was able to discover most characters by perusing past discussions about the logo.
I don't speak Arabic. I had found (a redlink) ("ARABIC LETTER SHEEN ISOLATED FORM"), and I did not know that instead I should use ش ("ARABIC LETTER SHEEN"). I learned a bit about the difference by reading Arabic script in Unicode. --Daniel Carrero (talk) 08:36, 7 July 2016 (UTC)

Business question[edit]

I'd like to ask you another business question. I understand that translators are subcontractors, free agents who act independently, and that your company would keep 50% of the translation fee, and pay 50% of the money to the translator.

Could any of your translators say to the client: "Next time you need translation done, just contact me, you don't need to go through the company."

Would this be something dishonest, unethical to do, having in mind that it would drive business away from your company? Or would this be something normal and expected that translators can do as free agents? --Daniel Carrero (talk) 11:57, 7 July 2016 (UTC)

Yes, that would be dishonest and unethical. I very rarely had that problem. I remember that I had a Chinese translator who was secretly trying to set up his own translation agency, and I had to fire him as soon as I found out about it. He was an excellent translator and I hated to lose him, but he would have had access to thousands of my clients and he would have known how much I charge and all of my personal contacts in the companies. It’s probably a good idea to have translators sign a noncompete clause (NCC). That way, if a translator ever went behind my back, I could bring a lawsuit against him. But I never did that, since most translators understand that they should not do it.
More often I had problems with my clients themselves. A motion-picture company tried to hire me independently of my company, so that he would only have to pay half price. Of course, I refused. I also had a federal judge try to make a separate deal with my Thai translator, where he would hire her and cut my company out. I blacklisted the judge and refused to accept any more work from his court. —Stephen (Talk) 12:13, 7 July 2016 (UTC)

Telugu script characters[edit]

There are some pages about the Category:Telugu script characters. For a few, there are no pages. Can you create these missing pages. I am fearing about any mistake, that might occur when I create these pages.--Rajasekhar1961 (talk) 12:05, 7 July 2016 (UTC)

Yes. Can you make a list of the missing letters? —Stephen (Talk) 12:15, 7 July 2016 (UTC)
Look at this : Appendix:Unicode/Telugu. Those in red letters. Pages need to be prepared for them. Sorry to give this trouble to you. Thanks.--Rajasekhar1961 (talk) 13:09, 7 July 2016 (UTC)
I have created this అనుస్వారము. I do not know which one is correct.--Rajasekhar1961 (talk) 07:48, 9 July 2016 (UTC)
Thanks. I’m sure that అనుస్వారము is the correct one. —Stephen (Talk) 08:26, 9 July 2016 (UTC)

Telugu rhymes[edit]

What are these rhymes. There are few languages, wherein these rhymes are created. Other than Category:English rhymes, in Indian languages, there are few Hindi rhymes for which categories are prepared. Can I create these rhymes pages for Telugu languages. What method to follow. Kindly guide me sir in proper direction.--Rajasekhar1961 (talk) 16:02, 9 July 2016 (UTC)

Yes, it would be nice to have rhymes. At w:Rhyme they talk about different kinds of rhymes, and mention Sanskrit rhymes and Tamil rhymes. In general, you could create pages such as Rhymes:Telugu/ప్పా (for words such as ఒప్పులకుప్పా, చిప్పా, కప్పా). Or you could show the rhymes in IPA as we do in English: Rhymes:Telugu/pːaː. Choose the method that you prefer.
Then on the ఒప్పులకుప్పా page, you would add:
* {{rhymes|ప్పా|lang=te}}
or * {{rhymes|pːaː|lang=te}}
Then on the page for Rhymes:Telugu/ప్పా (or Rhymes:Telugu/pːaː), you would prepare it like Rhymes:English/aɪmz. —Stephen (Talk) 19:23, 9 July 2016 (UTC)
Thank you very much for a detailing the methods of creating the rhymes for Telugu language. Since many Telugu words does not have IPA ; it looks easier to use the first method Rhymes:Telugu/ప్పా. But none of the language rhymes in English wiktionary have used this method.--Rajasekhar1961 (talk) 02:11, 10 July 2016 (UTC)
Almost all of the language rhymes on English Wiktionary are languages that use the Latin alphabet. I think only Hindi and Russian are using IPA instead of their standard alphabet. The Greek rhymes are using the Greek alphabet for its rhymes. See Rhymes:Greek/έος for example. —Stephen (Talk) 07:13, 10 July 2016 (UTC)
Rajasekhar1961, I think you should also make a page called Rhymes:Telugu, similar to the English page named Rhymes:English. Rhymes:Telugu will describe Telugu rhymes (different languages often prefer difference rules for making rhymes), and how to add new Telugu rhymes, etc. —Stephen (Talk) 07:24, 10 July 2016 (UTC)
Thank you very much for a detailed explanation. I have created Rhymes:Telugu/ప్పా. The Categories are added. But how to create Rhymes:Telugu page.--Rajasekhar1961 (talk) 11:01, 10 July 2016 (UTC)
Can I add గొప్ప to this category.--Rajasekhar1961 (talk) 11:47, 10 July 2016 (UTC)
I don’t think that గొప్ప rhymes with ఒప్పులకుప్పా, does it? ఒప్పులకుప్పా has long a (-ppaa), but గొప్ప has short a (-ppa). గొప్ప probably belongs on Rhymes:Telugu/ప్ప. But you are the expert. If you feel that they rhyme, then add గొప్ప.
Rhymes:Telugu should have information about Telugu rhymes. See Section VIII: On rhyme... I think that it has coon information about Telugu rules for rhyming. —Stephen (Talk) 13:17, 10 July 2016 (UTC)
ఒప్పులకుప్పా is actually ఒప్పులకుప్ప meaning beautiful person. It is lengthened only in a poetic form used in "ఒప్పులకుప్పా ఒయ్యారి భామ" one of the children songs. Hence should I change this page Rhymes:Telugu/ప్పా to Rhymes:Telugu/ప్ప, so that I can add the other rhyming words like గొప్ప, చిప్ప, కప్ప, తెప్ప, పప్ప, మొప్ప etc. I have created some more rhymes also. Are they accurate.Rajasekhar1961 (talk) 15:14, 10 July 2016 (UTC)
No, it appears that both ఒప్పులకుప్పా and ఒప్పులకుప్ప are correctly spelled words. ఒప్పులకుప్పా rhymes with Rhymes:Telugu/ప్పా, and ఒప్పులకుప్ప rhymes with Rhymes:Telugu/ప్ప. They are like e'er and ever in English, where e'er is a poetic spelling of ever.
The rhyme pages look good, but each word such as ఒడ్డు also needs to have this:
* Rhymes: -డ్డు
This links ఒడ్డు to the rhyme page so that a person can see what other words rhyme with ఒడ్డు. —Stephen (Talk) 12:34, 11 July 2016 (UTC)
In regard to Rhymes:Telugu, another helpful page that you can compare is Rhymes:Spanish. —Stephen (Talk) 20:06, 11 July 2016 (UTC)
I have created ఒప్పులకుప్పా and the related words also. Kindly look at these pages.--Rajasekhar1961 (talk) 06:00, 12 July 2016 (UTC)
I think ఒప్పులకుప్పా is good, but I have a couple of questions about ఒప్పులకుప్ప. In ఒప్పులకుప్ప, it is marked as a phrase. It does not seem like a phrase to me, but just a noun. Also, the definition of ఒప్పులకుప్ప is "an assemblage of beauty" (అందం సమాహారం, అందం ఒక సేకరణ??)... it is hard to understand it in English. —Stephen (Talk) 12:22, 13 July 2016 (UTC)
You are right. It is entered under noun only. I have changed it.--Rajasekhar1961 (talk) 13:32, 13 July 2016 (UTC)
I have started entering the IPA in the pronunciation section of the Rhymes:Telugu ex: Rhymes:Telugu/క్క. It helps me to pronounce the related words in that rhymes group. Kindly check for any errors. I have started writing the Telugu rhymes page in Rhymes:Telugu. I gave an example of కుక్క, మొక్క and చిన్నక్క. Can I quote పంచు and చూచు as a wrong example there. Thanking you.--Rajasekhar1961 (talk) 06:45, 15 August 2016 (UTC)
One thing I noticed: IPA can indicate the stressed syllable by inserting the ˈ mark before the syllable, like this: /kuˈkːa/, IPA for కుక్క. I don't know if Telugu also has a secondary (weaker) stress. Some languages, such as English, have a secondary stress, as in the word platypus (American English has a primary stress on "plat", secondary stress on "pus"). If Telegu has a secondary stress in some words, that weaker stress is indicated with ˌ, as in /ˈplætɪˌpʊs/. —Stephen (Talk) 13:28, 15 August 2016 (UTC)
Sorry, I am not knowledgeable enough about the Linguistics and Pronunciation of Telugu language. Can I continue to work in the IPA section.--Rajasekhar1961 (talk) 10:29, 17 August 2016 (UTC)
Yes, of course. I don't think that word stress is very important in Telugu anyway. People say that Telugu word stress does not affect meaning or understanding, and speakers disagree about which syllable should be stressed. Most people say that stress should be on the next-to-last or the last syllable, depending on word and vowel length. —Stephen (Talk) 15:05, 17 August 2016 (UTC)
Can I create Rhymes:Telugu pages for డు, ము, వు, లు, the case endings of Telugu language. They will be many pages ending with these letters.--Rajasekhar1961 (talk) 10:39, 19 August 2016 (UTC)
Yes, if Telugu poets use these forms as rhymes. It really depends on the traditions followed by native writers and speakers. In the Spanish language, there is a common verb ending in -ía (comía, vivía, había, etc.), which forms the conditional tense for some verbs. It is very common in the Spanish language, and Spanish poets say that writers should avoid making rhymes with verb suffixes such as -ía, because it is too easy. If a Spanish poem has rhymes with -ía, it sounds childish. So if Telugu poets like to use these case endings to create rhymes, then you should make pages for them. —Stephen (Talk) 10:54, 19 August 2016 (UTC)
There is a request for cleanup for Telugu rhymes. See the link here: [1].Is there any discussion earlier about Greek and other languages which are based on the local language.--Rajasekhar1961 (talk) 11:46, 22 September 2016 (UTC)
I don't know of any discussions about Greek, etc. IPA is needed for English because English is not spelled phonetically. For languages that are spelled phonetically (especially if there are different regional pronunciations), IPA does not makes sense. For example, Rhymes:Spanish/anθja is not very useful, since only a minority of Spanish speakers use that pronunciation. If it were named Rhymes:Spanish/ancia, then it would make sense for all regions of every Spanish-speaking country. Also, many letter combinations in Spanish can have different pronunciations according to need. For example, the ending -ado can be pronounced /aðo/ or /ao/; combinations of strong vowels such as /ae/ (two syllables) can be pronounced /ai/ (one syllable) and vice versa. So if the rhyme in a certain Spanish poem needs to rhyme with "Laos", every Spanish poet knows he can use a word that ends in -ados; but if in another place a rhyme is needed for -ados, the ending -ados still works. The same spelling can fit different pronunciations.
Using IPA instead of the Spanish alphabet means that words with the ending -ado will need to show multiple rhymes (for regional accents and for variant pronunciations). Also, there are several kinds of rhyme in Spanish, so the ending -ado will need quite a few more versions. In Spanish assonant rhyme, the words Juan, habláis, mar, más, and tomad all rhyme with one other. By requiring that Spanish use IPA for rhymes as English does, it makes providing rhymes in Spanish very awkward and unintuitive, and no one will do the enormous work needed to make it workable for Spanish.
So I would let the other editors who do not know Spanish or Telugu rhyme and meter decide on which they prefer. If they still want IPA, I think you should let someone do it who better understands what they want. That's what I would do. —Stephen (Talk) 03:43, 23 September 2016 (UTC)
Thank you very much for your details explanation. I would continue my work; because it is giving me an opportunity to link similar Telugu words.--Rajasekhar1961 (talk) 09:14, 23 September 2016 (UTC)
Sir, I have changed the page links from simple interwiki link ex: (చీమ) to language link ex: చీమ (cīma) in the Rhymes:Telugu/మ page. It appears to be better to understand for the non-Telugu speaking people, because of the transliteration. Is it O.K.--Rajasekhar1961 (talk) 08:52, 16 May 2017 (UTC)
Yes, that's a good idea. Thanks. —Stephen (Talk) 13:44, 16 May 2017 (UTC)
Please go through the Rhymes:Telugu/ప page. I have a doubt. Are the two words చెంప (ceṃpa) and చేప (cēpa) really rhiming. Similar problem is there in other Telugu rhymes pages. Kindly clarify. If not, I would split them into two different pages.Rajasekhar1961 (talk) 10:32, 2 June 2017 (UTC)
I'm not sure if they are rhymes or not. Different languages have different ideas about rhyming. Try to think of two lines of poetry using these two words. For example:
అతను చెప్పాడు: ఒక చేప,
అతను ఆలోచన: ఒక చెంప.
When you say the lines, do they seem to rhyme, or not? —Stephen (Talk) 04:11, 3 June 2017 (UTC)
I have discussed with some linguists, the two words rhyme in poetic usage. The anusvara in Telugu language is part of the preceding letter, but not to the letter following it.Rajasekhar1961 (talk) 05:38, 5 June 2017 (UTC)

Unonyanyogona ipi[edit]

What is your most popular language u speak? Unonyanyogona ipi or rurimi rwaamai vako? User:Takudzwa Chaita 14:05, 10 July 2016‎ (UTC)

Ndine hurombo, handina kuona ichi pamberi. Chinonyanya yakakurumbira mutauro kuti ndinotaura (kunze Chirungu) ndiwo mutauro wokuRussia. Rurimi rwaamai vangu ndiye chiRungu. Ndakadzidza mutauro wokuRussia pandakanga ndiri muchiuto. Mushure muchiuto, ndakazonzwa mitauro wechiSpain, wokuFrance, wokuGermany, uye vamwe. —Stephen (Talk) 16:00, 17 August 2016 (UTC)


In Spanish are they verbs which are transferred from English or it own verbs Takudzwa Chaita (talk) 13:36, 10 July 2016 (UTC)

Spanish has its own verbs, such as hablar (to speak). For a list of Spanish verbs, see Category:Spanish verbs. —Stephen (Talk) 13:42, 10 July 2016 (UTC)

English or Spanish[edit]

Yaa l agree with on that but you see l can speak or write English but at home and we usually speak Shona . Lm good at English in writing not in speaking so my mom hire me professional English teacher so he is working at me so l suggested to learn Spanish too T Chaita 13:55, 17 July 2016 (UTC)

Yes, a professional English teacher will be a big help for you. Many people can learn only one language at a time, but some people are able to learn 2 or 3 languages at the same time. Only you know if you are able to learn 2 languages at once. If you can do it easily, then by all means you should learn English and Spanish. The website that I gave you,, is a good source for learning Spanish. —Stephen (Talk) 14:24, 17 July 2016 (UTC)

Telugu possessive pronouns[edit]

I have created pages for two Category:Telugu possessive pronouns : నాది (mine) and నీది (yours). Are they correct. There are other similar possessive pronouns : అతనిది, ఆమెది, etc., There are plural forms also like నావి and నీవి. What method of entry to follow for these plural forms. Kindly help me.--Rajasekhar1961 (talk) 13:37, 20 July 2016 (UTC)

Yes, they look good to me. Plural forms can follow the same method. For example, here is a plural pronoun in the Asturian language: nosotros (we); and in Spanish: nuestro (our). —Stephen (Talk) 13:49, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
I have created the suffix pages -ది (singular) and -వి (plural) that are used in these Telugu possessive pronouns. I am linking them to these pronouns through Etymology. Can you expand the Telugu pronouns table (in నాది) and include the 3rd person and singular and plural forms as is seen in nuestro page.--Rajasekhar1961 (talk) 04:54, 21 July 2016 (UTC)
Done. Please check నాది to make sure that I did it correctly. —Stephen (Talk) 06:10, 21 July 2016 (UTC)
You misunderstood me. I meant to include the Telugu 3rd person pronouns in the table; not the suffixes.--Rajasekhar1961 (talk) 08:03, 21 July 2016 (UTC)
Do you mean 3rd person singular masculine అతను, అతడు (he); 3rd person singular feminine ఆమె, ఆవిడ (she); 3rd person singular neuter ఇది, (it); and 3rd person plural వారు, అవి (they)? —Stephen (Talk) 08:14, 21 July 2016 (UTC)
I just saw a separate table for 3rd person pronouns. I do not know the need for two tables of Telugu pronouns.--Rajasekhar1961 (talk) 11:07, 21 July 2016 (UTC)
So, should the two tables be combined or kept separate. If separate, I suppose that I should remove the 3rd person from నాది? —Stephen (Talk) 12:25, 21 July 2016 (UTC)
Please keep them as it is. Sorry to disturb your work without knowing the facts.Rajasekhar1961 (talk) 03:04, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
I think that we need a second table of pronouns. In నేను (I, which is a personal pronoun), the current table {{te-personal pronouns}} is good. But in నాది (mine, which is a possessive pronoun), {{te-personal pronouns}} is not appropriate. —Stephen (Talk) 19:49, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
I have removed the personal pronouns table from నాది page. Thanking you.Rajasekhar1961 (talk) 04:17, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

Telugu interrogative pronouns[edit]

I have created few pages and expanded the other Category:Telugu interrogative pronouns. Please check their accuracy and for any mistakes.--Rajasekhar1961 (talk) 08:14, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

I made some changes to ఏది that I think are helpful. The other pages can benefit the same way. I also made some changes on the other pages, but I am not sure that my changes are correct. You probably need to correct my edits. —Stephen (Talk) 16:52, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
Thank you sir.--Rajasekhar1961 (talk) 17:01, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

Telugu superlative adjectives[edit]

పరమము means most, excellent. Can I include it in Category:Telugu adjective superlative forms‎. In పరమపతివ్రత; పరమ is a prefix or adjective. Can you tell me some other examples of the Telugu superlative adjectives. Thanking you.--Rajasekhar1961 (talk) 05:40, 26 July 2016 (UTC)

In most cases, Telugu does not have comparative or superlative forms (-er, more, -est, most). Instead, Telugu shows degrees of comparison like this: Than water milk is good (= better). Than that knife this is good. Among these horses this is good (= best). With Ramayya and Subbayya, Subbayya is clever (more clever).:
నీటి కంటే పాలు మంచిది.nīṭi kaṃṭē pālu maṃcidi.Milk is better than water.
ఆ కత్తి కంటే ఈ మంచి ఉంది.ā katti kaṃṭē ī maṃci uṃdi.This knife is better than that one.
ఈ గుర్రాలు మధ్య ఈ మంచి ఉంది.ī gurrālu madhya ī maṃci uṃdi.This one is the best of these horses.
రామయ్యా సుబ్బయ్యా లతో సుబ్బయ్యా మేధావి ఉంది.rāmayyā subbayyā latō subbayyā mēdhāvi uṃdi.Subbayya is more clever than Ramayya.
Here are some words that might be superlative adjectives, but some are probably not correct:
అతి తెలివైన
అత్యంత శీతల
అధిక సాంద్రత ఉన్న
అతి బరువైన
పెను శబ్దం కలిగిన
అతి మృదువైన
అతి తేమగా
పిన్న —Stephen (Talk) 07:07, 26 July 2016 (UTC)
What I understood, Telugu language has Category:Telugu adjective comparative forms but not superlative adjective forms. Can I create this category with the existing Telugu adjectives.--Rajasekhar1961 (talk) 02:52, 11 August 2016 (UTC)
I did not see this until now. Yes, that category seems good to me. —Stephen (Talk) 03:30, 25 August 2016 (UTC)

Literature and language-learning material in Navajo[edit]

Hi Stephen. A friend of mine will do research on American literature as part of her college graduation. She told me she is interested in focusing on the work of Native Americans. Do you happen to know of any good material for learning Navajo or literature written in Navajo; preferably something that is available or orderable online from Brazil. (Other native languages could work too, but as far as I know Navajo is the one with most resources available). Thanks! — Ungoliant (falai) 02:38, 28 July 2016 (UTC)

"Diné Bizaad: Speak, Read, Write Navajo" is good. She can get it from Salina Bookshelf. I am not sure about ordering from Brazil. Another one is "Diné Bizaad Bínáhoo’aah: Rediscovering The Navajo Language" (available at the same place). There is also the "Rosetta Stone Navajo", also from the Salina Bookshelf site.
Navajo and the other Athabaskan languages (such as Apache) are among the most difficult languages on earth, and few people have ever learned to speak one of them fluently as a second language. For that reason, the language materials that are available are actually intended for use by people who already speak the languages, but who want to study their own language. I don’t think there are any Navajo grammars written specifically for foreigners. She can also find some Navajo literature at the Salina Bookshelf.
She can get Comanche language books here. For Cherokee, she might like this one or this one. For Lakota language, try [this one]. It’s an old book (1939), but very good.
However, as I mentioned, I don’t know what difficulties there might be by ordering from Brazil. —Stephen (Talk) 04:38, 28 July 2016 (UTC)
Thank you so much, Stephen! My friend sends her thanks as well. — Ungoliant (falai) 13:37, 30 July 2016 (UTC)

Idiom or phrase[edit]

I have created నిండుకుండ తొణకదు. Is it an Idiom or Phrase. Please check for its accuracy.--Rajasekhar1961 (talk) 06:19, 28 July 2016 (UTC)

I think it is a proverb (నానుడి). Otherwise, it seems good. A proverb entry is like a watched pot never boils. —Stephen (Talk) 06:30, 28 July 2016 (UTC)
Thank you sir.--Rajasekhar1961 (talk) 07:59, 28 July 2016 (UTC)

Spanish combined forms[edit]

I have recently added an option to display some combined forms to the Spanish conjugation templates, and I would appreciate your feedback:

  1. Are these forms correct? (particularly unsure of the second person plural forms on both axes).
  2. Does it make sense to use "dative" and "accusative" in this way? If not how would you organize this table?

Thanks for your time. DTLHS (talk) 16:25, 31 July 2016 (UTC)

I think it’s pretty good, I don’t see any mistakes. There are complications surrounding the third-person le/les and lo/la/los/las, and I doubt that these complications can be addressed by us. Or at least, I don’t know how it could be done. Different regions sometimes have different rules. For example, in central and northern Spain, le/les are often used as indirect objects, so instead of saying lo vimos (we saw him), la vimos (we saw her), they say le vimos (we saw him/her...humans) and lo vimos, la vimos (we saw it...nonhuman). In the same region, le/les commonly are used as direct objects (male or female), though often they will use los for males and les for female direct objects (while in the singular, a speaker might change to lo/la).
Usually these le/les and lo/la/los/las complications also depend upon the verb used. Some verbs are often found with these differences, while other verbs are not. For example, some common verbs that may be heard with le/les as a human direct object include:
creer (yo le creo, I believe him/her)
disgustar (to displease)
gustar (to please) (les gusta, they like it)
importar (to matter to)
interesar (to interest)
llenar (to fulfill) (ser ama de casa no le llena, being a housewife does not fulfill her; but lo llena, he fills it up)
pegar (to beat) (su marido le pega a ella, her husband beats her)
Also, le/les are preferred for third-person human direct objects in certain other constructions in most parts of the Spanish-speaking world, but this really gets complicated and is a subject for an advanced grammar. Some very common cases of this are:
Usually after an impersonal se: se le reconoció (he was recognized) (se lo reconoció is also correct, but not usual)
Often when the direct object should be usted/ustedes, le/les is often used (although lo/la are also correct): Perdone, señor, no quería molestarle (excuse me, sir, I didn’t want to bother you)
Quite often if the subject of the verb is inanimate (neither human nor animal), le/les are often preferred as direct objects even by someone who would use lo/la in other contexts:
Le espera una catástrofe (a catastrophe awaits her), versus La espera su hermana (her sister is waiting for her).
These usages fluctuate in some cases, especially in Latin America. Colombian speakers especially prefer lo/la/los/las where others may use le/les. —Stephen (Talk) 21:22, 1 August 2016 (UTC)
This phenomenon is called leísmo and loísmo, should you wish to know. --Allkokf009 (talk) 00:15, 3 August 2016 (UTC)

August 2016[edit]


What is Wikisaurus (like Thesaurus). Can I create Wikisaurus pages for Telugu language entries. Is there any minimum number of synonyms, antonyms etc for any entry in Wikisaurus.--Rajasekhar1961 (talk) 02:56, 11 August 2016 (UTC)

Yes, it is like a thesaurus. I have not worked with Wikisaurus, so I don’t know much about it. Wikisaurus includes not only synonyms, but also antonyms, hyponyms, hypernyms, meronyms and holonyms. I don’t think there is any minimum number of synonyms, but as far as I know, we only have the English Wikisaurus. I think you could probably create a Wikisaurus for the Telugu te:విక్షనరీ. Maybe te:వికీపదకోశం. I do not know how Wikisaurus was created. You should ask for information about creating it at WT:BP. —Stephen (Talk) 03:48, 11 August 2016 (UTC)
Thank you sir.--Rajasekhar1961 (talk) 03:51, 11 August 2016 (UTC)
I have started working on Wikisaurus in Telugu language. For example: Wikisaurus:కుక్క. Thank you for referring me to the right person.--Rajasekhar1961 (talk) 15:20, 13 August 2016 (UTC)
Wikisaurus:కుక్క looks very good. —Stephen (Talk) 16:27, 13 August 2016 (UTC)

Telugu language - IPA[edit]

I have discussed with you earlier regarding IPA pronunciation in Telugu entries. You have linked to the w:Telugu_language#Phonology section from the Pronunciation template. Using that I am creating some pronunciations for Telugu entries. Can you check some of my entries. Can you compare this IPA link (particularly , , , , , , ) with some other standard source.--Rajasekhar1961 (talk) 13:48, 24 August 2016 (UTC)

I made some minor changes. They look good to me. —Stephen (Talk) 03:28, 25 August 2016 (UTC)
Do you think w:Telugu_language#Phonology is accurate. How to pronounce is not clear to me.--Rajasekhar1961 (talk) 05:19, 25 August 2016 (UTC)
I don't think that Wikipedia explains how to pronounce . I can't find any source that describes well. We transliterate the anusvara as , but other sources may transliterate it as or . I don't think it can be represented in IPA all by itself. When it is used in a word, such as కం (kaṃ), maybe it could be written in IPA as /kã/. —Stephen (Talk) 07:12, 25 August 2016 (UTC)
Thank you sir.--Rajasekhar1961 (talk) 08:42, 27 August 2016 (UTC)


sodaIPADOTSshowdaSPOKNsylabls?(dad'd=WOULDmakesens.. 10:09, 30 August 2016 (UTC)

To translate (since I've learned to understand this guy): "So the IPA dots show the spoken syllables? That doesn't would make sense.". To replay: Yes, periods are used to separate the syllables; however, the syllabification of spoken English is highly disputed and not very meaningful, except in certain circumstances. --WikiTiki89 11:30, 30 August 2016 (UTC)

guesi(finaly)getit:SPOKNsylabls><RITN1s(hyfenatn,ta! 14:58, 30 August 2016 (UTC)

To translate: "Guess I (finally) get it. Spoken syllables ≠ written ones (??), thank you!" --WikiTiki89 15:05, 30 August 2016 (UTC)
The biggest difference in etymological vs. syllabic hyphenation is whether a syllable has a long vowel or a short one. A long vowel is indicated by an open syllable (syllable ends in a vowel), and a short vowel is indicated by a closed syllable (syllable ends in a consonant).
  • Short vowels: tap, bet, pick, bog, rug.
  • Long vowels: ba-by, Re-no, hi-ho, no-go, boo-boo.
If you hyphenate according to etymology, you would get this, which breaks the rules of pronunciation:
geo-graph-y, tele-phony, know-ledge, bio-logy, pre-sent (noun or verb).
Sometimes it is necessary to break up an etymological morpheme to get a needed long or short vowel:
geog-ra-phy, teleph-ony, knowl-edge, bi-ol-o-gy, pres-ent (gift), pre-sent (verb). —Stephen (Talk) 01:22, 1 September 2016 (UTC)

September 2016[edit]

Your advice on expanding my horizons[edit]

Hi. I've come to you for advice for this because you're very well-known here for being able to translate stuff in almost any language I can think of.

I would like to expand my linguistic horizons a bit. Not saying I want to completely learn more languages, but just want to get a basic understanding of more languages. Right now the languages to my highest knowledge compared to others are English, Danish, Scots, and a bunch of Romance languages (not including Romanian and Latin).

If you'd like a list of languages that particularly interest me, they're these: Armenian, Dutch, Finnish, German, Indonesian, Mongolian, Polish, Romanian, Russian, Slovene, and Tagalog.

How did you get such good understandings of all the languages you know? What would you advise me as far as getting a basic understanding of at least most of the languages I listed. My knowledge in Danish was from commitment, and the knowledge of the others comes basically from reading a lot in those languages and taking Spanish and French classes in high school. Thanks. Philmonte101 (talk) 00:17, 3 September 2016 (UTC)

I studied Spanish, German, French, and Russian in school, and my military MOS was Russian linguist, which I used while stationed in West Germany. I continued to live and work in Germany for a number of years, and later also in France, Spain, and a number of other countries. Then I managed a translation company for many years. We had around 200 translators, and besides the regular proofreading that every translation went through, I also ran my own eyes over every translation before it left our office. Having one eye on the source text and the other on the target text, it’s amazing what errors and omissions you can catch after a little experience. As I read all those texts in numerous languages over the course of decades, side by side with the English, it gradually soaked into my brain little by little.
You should study the languages that interest you to learn the basic grammar and how they work, and to pick up at least a basic vocabulary, and then if you will do a lot of reading (it helps, I think, to have the same text in English and the language of study). Some languages are easy to pick up this way (most European languages, and also some others, such as Arabic and Khmer). If you are interested in certain technologies (such as medicine, petroleum exploration and refining, finance, law, civil engineering, automotive, and so on), you can often find trade magazines produced in English and other languages, and after you start learning the vocabulary and phrases used in a particular trade, you will find that it makes understanding texts concerning that trade pretty easy. Otherwise, national and international news articles (newspapers, magazines) are easy to understand, since you can find the same news articles written in English so that you already know about the matter being discussed. Things like that make texts in a foreign language easy to understand, and it allows you to pick up the language surprisingly easy. —Stephen (Talk) 01:27, 3 September 2016 (UTC)

Proto-Athabascan convention[edit]

Hi Steven, I saw that you replaced my former *deŋ with *denʸ in the root -DÍÍN of Navajo. I know that this is how Young writes it, but my understanding is that because of the typesetting limitations (he was basically using a good old typewriter...), was his best guess for a replacement of ŋ. In the beginning of the etymological section, he does give the actual real shape of the intended proto-phoneme (ŋ), which appears manually written in the printed book itself. That's why I wanted to modernize these awkward spellings with Leer's original intentions. What do you think ? Julien Daux (talk) 14:06, 13 September 2016 (UTC) As a reference, there is this old entry in the Proto-Athabascan section of Wiktionary that already uses ŋ : *-ləŋ. Julien Daux (talk) 14:22, 13 September 2016 (UTC)

I was not sure about that. There is also the symbol ɲ (like ny) in addition to the symbol ŋ (like ng). I see now that he did say it meant /ŋ/. It still seems odd to me that he would use nʸ for /ŋ/ instead of nᵍ. If you are satisfied that it really means /ŋ/, then that's fine by me. —Stephen (Talk) 11:53, 15 September 2016 (UTC)
I agree, this is pretty weird. I don't know myself if a /ɲ/ was intended. I'll do some more research on that.
Side note : I don't know how Wiktionary notifications works, but I wasn't notified of this answer of you, just saw it by chance. In case the same thing happens to you, I replied to you on my talk page, regarding roots and the rest. Regards, Julien Daux (talk) 14:47, 19 September 2016 (UTC)
I often have trouble with automatic notifications, too. As I understand it, it requires two things: the addressee's name, such as @Julien Daux, and the 4 tildes that sign the comment, all in the same paragraph and saved simultaneously. If the addressee's name and the 4 tildes are saved in separate actions, it won't work. I try to do it correctly, but sometimes it still seems to fail. —Stephen (Talk) 00:37, 20 September 2016 (UTC)
The diff tool has to recognize the ping and the signature as being in "new" paragraphs rather than replacing old paragraphs. So if you are replacing some content, as here for example, it won't work; in such situations, you have to do something like this instead. --WikiTiki89 14:52, 20 September 2016 (UTC)
Oh, I see. They don't have to be in the same paragraph, they have to be in a new paragraph. Tricky. —Stephen (Talk) 04:32, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

October 2016[edit]


Hi Stephen, I was trying to make some order in the sidá/siké/naháaztą́ entry, and I saw an example with the plural-sitting stem used in the singular, reading : Áłchíní bił naháashtą́ (I sat / stayed with the children), with an emphasis on the 1sg -sh- prefix used along with the plural stem.

As far as I can see, the si-perfective 1st person singular prefix is sé- or sis-. The form should be: Áłchíní bił nahísístą́ .

Is that a colloquialism or just an error? Thank you, Julien Daux (talk) 01:09, 1 October 2016 (UTC)

Not a colloquialism, but I don't remember the precise explanation. The verb in this sentence used the 3rd-person naháaztą́, but with the 1st-person -sh- (naháashtą́. What you wrote is correct as well, but there might be a slight difference in the meaning. I think I read it somewhere, but after all this time I don't know where. —Stephen (Talk) 20:18, 1 October 2016 (UTC)


I wanted to thank you for changing my username to 'amin'. It made my day. Amin (talk) 22:01, 1 October 2016 (UTC)


Is it really a verb/adjective meaning "(to be) brown", or isn't it rather a noun meaning "a brown sheep"? Julien Daux (talk) 04:50, 2 October 2016 (UTC)

It's a noun. It can mean a brown sheep, but usually it just means brown. —Stephen (Talk) 08:37, 2 October 2016 (UTC)

అట్టి, అటువంటి[edit]

I have created two pages for అట్టి (aṭṭi) and అటువంటి (aṭuvaṃṭi). In different dictionaries, they are Categorized as Adjectives, Pronouns. I have given their Brown link also. Kindly clarify their accurate status. Thanking you.--Rajasekhar1961 (talk) 05:41, 4 October 2016 (UTC)

They used to be called adjectives or pronouns, but the modern term is ===Determiner===. —Stephen (Talk) 07:48, 4 October 2016 (UTC)
I have changed their category to Determiner and also created the new Category. Thank you very much.--Rajasekhar1961 (talk) 12:29, 4 October 2016 (UTC)


How would you translate this sentence?

2016 October 4, “Prevenir el cáncer de seno está en tus manos”, in El Deber Bolivia[2]:
Como es de cocimiento público, la incidencia de este tipo de cáncer se ha incrementado de manera importante, es así como se considera que una de cada nueve mujeres tuvo, tiene o tendrá esta enfermedad durante su vida.

The definitions I've found say "poaching" or "slow cooking", which doesn't seem to work here. DTLHS (talk) 21:55, 7 October 2016 (UTC)

I believe it should be "conocimiento" ? Julien Daux (talk) 00:03, 8 October 2016 (UTC)
Yes, conocimiento. The translation is:
It is common knowledge that the incidence of this cancer has increased significantly. Thus it is believed that one out of nine women has had, now has, or will have the disease during their lifetime. —Stephen (Talk) 05:49, 8 October 2016 (UTC)


Thank you for filling the missing root. When I reviewed my previous day's changes, I was totally unaware that you had filled the root and gloss part, and thinking I did it, I decided to change the gloss from "dig" to "stick". I didn't mean to "revert", "override" or "supersede" any of your edits, I just thought I wrote it. On another note, I'm still split between dig and stick as the main gloss, stick seemed to be closer to the original meaning. Julien Daux (talk) 06:15, 9 October 2016 (UTC)

No problem. Stick maybe, but stick is clear only as a noun. Although stick could be a verb, it is very ambiguous as a verb out of context. If we add it as a verb (in the sense of stab, poke), it will probably be understood by most people as attach, fasten (stick a stamp on the envelope), or some other meaning of stick. I believe that the verbs pierce, poke, or thrust are better understood, or to "act with a rigid, elongated object". I agree that dig is not the best choice. —Stephen (Talk) 08:40, 9 October 2016 (UTC)
Yes, "stick" is problematic... I'll try think of a better one-word gloss. Thank you! Julien Daux (talk) 11:52, 10 October 2016 (UTC)

Telugu statistics[edit]

How to analyze the work done in Telugu language in English wiktionary. Can you guide me the methodology to assess my work in Telugu language in an yearly or mothly wise. I would like to know, whether my work is progressive, so than I can plan future work. Thanking you.--Rajasekhar1961 (talk) 12:53, 10 October 2016 (UTC)

I added a couple of links to your user page that should be useful for this. I have not explored them much, but there is a lot of information there. And they contain other links that you can visit. Experiment with these links and see what they will show.
However, these links are based on data dumps that someone at Wikimedia performs from time to time. I don't think they do it every month. Updated perhaps 4 times a year. —Stephen (Talk) 14:37, 10 October 2016 (UTC)
విక్షనరీ: సంఖ్య ౪౬
వికీపీడియా: సంఖ్య ౩


Hi! You speak every damn language so could you please look at aflaj? Someone requested a proper ety and I found the word, but I think I found falaj (because aflaj should begin with the alef), so it might be very faintly wrong. I can't just put an alef on the beginning because probably some other vowels might be modified. Thanks! Equinox 21:18, 12 October 2016 (UTC)

أَفْلَاج (ʾaflāj) is one of the plurals of فَلَج (falaj). --WikiTiki89 17:38, 13 October 2016 (UTC)
Wikitiki is right. In Arabic, the pattern vccVc (such as ʾaflāj) is a very common plural of nouns in ccc (such as falaj). —Stephen (Talk) 03:34, 14 October 2016 (UTC)
I think what you mean is that ʾaCCāC is a common plural of CaCaC. --WikiTiki89 15:03, 14 October 2016 (UTC)
Right, it is ʾaCCāC (specifically those vowels and not any others). —Stephen (Talk) 15:18, 14 October 2016 (UTC)

Telugu poetic forms[edit]

There are some early forms of Telugu nouns like ఉత్సాహంబు (ఉత్సాహము), మత్సరంబు (మత్సరము), రాముండు (రాముడు), విహంగంబు (విహంగము) and వీర్యంబు (వీర్యము). Can I consider them as the poetic forms of their actual words written in brackets. I do not think they are the alternative forms. Please clarify my doubt. Thanking you.--Rajasekhar1961 (talk) 15:24, 18 October 2016 (UTC)

Yes, I think so. Poetic and maybe archaic. —Stephen (Talk) 15:32, 18 October 2016 (UTC)
Thank you. I have created page for రాముండు. Is it fine. How to link them to the main page రాముడు--Rajasekhar1961 (talk) 04:48, 19 October 2016 (UTC)
It looks good. I think you could link to the main page under either ====See also==== or ====Synonyms====, or possibly ====Related terms====. Choose whichever you prefer.
As for alternative forms, I think that ===Alternative forms=== should be placed after the definitions. —Stephen (Talk) 22:55, 19 October 2016 (UTC)
I thought of adding them as Synonyms. The Alternative forms section is at the beginning of the page after the language section. I am following this link: Wiktionary:Entry layout. As for the poetic forms, is there any need to give an example of a stanza in a poem as a reference.--Rajasekhar1961 (talk) 14:04, 20 October 2016 (UTC)
You can give an example of a stanza in a poem if you want to. It's not necessary though. —Stephen (Talk) 14:25, 20 October 2016 (UTC)

Stems edits[edit]

Hi, I saw you slightly updated the stem entries I recently added. If you want me to update the grammatical mistake on "occurring", I can do it, you don't need to go over all the entries yourself. I'm sorry I did this mistake.

Additionally, I saw that you added a slash after the <br> marker (as <br/>) , I wondered what this was for? Regards, Julien Daux (talk) 16:32, 20 October 2016 (UTC)

Thanks, it's not problem. As for br_/, I am not an expert on html, but as I understand it, this is the standard form used in HTML 5. Please see this question and answer. It will explain it better than I can. —Stephen (Talk) 16:38, 20 October 2016 (UTC)
Well, I skipped through the link, and all I can say, is that I understand even less than before ;). Seems everyone has their own take on it... Julien Daux (talk) 17:17, 20 October 2016 (UTC)
Yes, it seems that every combination is good. I see some admins correcting br to br_/, but that question/answer site makes me more confused. —Stephen (Talk) 18:09, 20 October 2016 (UTC)
At any rate, all stem pages are now fixed with your 2 observations. Julien Daux (talk) 19:06, 20 October 2016 (UTC)


Thank you for creating the page for грейхаунд. Much appreciated.

Accidental edit[edit]

My apologies for одинокий. I didn't even mean to edit the page. Pariah24 22:09, 24 October 2016 (UTC)

Farsi yeh[edit]

Hey, I've noticed that discussions about this topic occurred a few times on your userpage so I figured you're the one to ask. Would it be a good idea for our link module to convert Arabic yeh and kaf into Farsi variants? I found a case in which one is used in the link and the other in the entry thus failing to link and I imagine this is a reoccurring problem. Crom daba (talk) 10:13, 26 October 2016 (UTC)

Yes, it would be a good idea. Up until about ten years ago, Persian yeh and Arabic yaa’/alif maqsurah were considered the same letter (with minor variations). The Unicode Consortium broke the unified Arabic alphabet into separate alphabets, and people were slow to accept this change. That's why we still find Persian written with Arabic kaf and yaa’, and even the Arabic numbers (٠ ١ ٢ ٣ ٤ ٥ ٦ ٧ ٨ ٩ (instead of) ۰ ۱ ۲ ۳ ۴ ۵ ۶ ۷ ۸ ۹). So it would be useful if the Persian module could check for and fix those letters. —Stephen (Talk) 16:01, 26 October 2016 (UTC)
@Crom daba: That would be a very bad idea. All these cases need to be fixed to use a Farsi yeh in the wikitext itself. Converting links only hides the problem rather than fixing it. --WikiTiki89 17:12, 26 October 2016 (UTC)
Does the problem really exist though? In non-final contexts (in which I imagine that most of these mistakes happen) the characters are rendered the same. Another plus is that this would make it impossible for incorrectly written entries to be linked to, making their discovery faster. Crom daba (talk) 17:42, 26 October 2016 (UTC)
Maybe a tracking category could be created. —suzukaze (tc) 19:03, 26 October 2016 (UTC)
Yeah, I'd rather go with a tracking category than with "correcting" the links. By the way, this problem is not unique to Persian. We've had cases of people using Latin i in Ukrainian (instead of Cyrillic і). Or even more sporadic cases of various other Latin characters in any Cyrillic-script languages. The correct solution is to track them all down and fix them and not to automatically redirect links. --WikiTiki89 20:15, 26 October 2016 (UTC)


How would you translate this verb? It's in the RAE, but I don't know what the nautical equivalent would be in English. Here's a quote:

  1. 2016 October 9, “En Puerto Santa Ana se fortalece la obra ribereña”, in El Universo[3]:
    Ahí se podrá llegar en yate, lancha o velero desde cualquier sector costero, acoderar su embarcación, pasear, degustar un platillo o simplemente disfrutar una taza caliente de café en compañía de la brisa del río.

DTLHS (talk) 20:19, 29 October 2016 (UTC)

acoderar means to bring the broadside to bear, or anchor broadside on.
You can get there by yacht, boat or sailboat from any coastal area, bring your boat broadside to the anchor, walk, enjoy a meal, or just have a hot cup of coffee in the company of the river breeze. —Stephen (Talk) 20:45, 29 October 2016 (UTC)
Thank you. DTLHS (talk) 21:03, 29 October 2016 (UTC)

November 2016[edit]


Thank you for spotting the mistake! the "baa nahaniih" example was meant to be the passive of the "buy" meaning, not from the "sell" one. I fixed it already. Julien Daux (talk) 07:09, 5 November 2016 (UTC)


How would you translate this word? It's something from Venezuelan politics:

  1. 2016 November 11, “Entendimiento, referendo, coalición, transición”, in El Nacional[4]:
    Que permitiría una suerte de “justicia transicional” que evitaría retaliaciones y permitiría a matraqueros, comisionistas y petrovivos buscar refugios o edenes tolerantes.

Thanks. DTLHS (talk) 16:31, 13 November 2016 (UTC)

In Venezuela, matraquero is a word for an extortionist, blackmailer, or commission agent (someone who wants extra money to speed things up). Related to matraca (pestering). The word petrovivo is not familiar to me.
That would allow a sort of “transitional justice” that would avoid retaliation and permit extortionists, commission agents and [petrovivos] to seek tolerant shelters or edens. —Stephen (Talk) 13:51, 14 November 2016 (UTC)
I assumed "petrovivo" meant someone who made their living from the petroleum industry, but that's just a guess. DTLHS (talk) 20:21, 14 November 2016 (UTC)
Doesn't sound right to me. It could be Latin, "the living Saint Peter." But I still can't make sense of it. Or it could be a misspelling for something else. —Stephen (Talk) 13:24, 15 November 2016 (UTC)

Ligature or adjective[edit]

Kindly see this entry క్రొ (kro). Is it Ligature, Adjective or both. How to categorize it. Whether the Usage notes is accurate. Thanking you.Rajasekhar1961 (talk) 12:49, 18 November 2016 (UTC)

I think you have it right. Looks good to me. There is one word there, క్రొం౛ాయ, with the letter . I can't see that letter in my font. I looked for information about it, but I couldn't find anything. Is it a correct letter? —Stephen (Talk) 18:44, 19 November 2016 (UTC)


Another nautical term- does English have a word for this type of boat? Based off the Spanish wikipedia article I don't think pilot boat is the correct translation, even though the word was borrowed from English. DTLHS (talk) 15:37, 22 November 2016 (UTC)

I think it is equivalent to (1) a pilot boat or (2) a small schooner. —Stephen (Talk) 16:28, 22 November 2016 (UTC)

Talk pages[edit]

Hi Stephen, I was wondering: how can I monitor changes done to talk pages of Navajo entries (Navajo lemma or Navajo verbs)? I know how to see the last changes done to main pages of a given category, but to not their related talk pages... I saw that "watching" the page will show changes done to the talk page, but this would require adding all entries to my watchlist, one by one... Thank you! Julien Daux (talk) 19:24, 27 November 2016 (UTC)

Hi, Julien. When you add a project page to your watchlist (an entry), you also add its corresponding talk page. It's done automatically, so you should see talk-page changes for any entry that you have edited. Is this what you meant? —Stephen (Talk) 14:38, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
Here is a Wikipedia page that addresses some of this: w:Help:Wikipedia: The Missing Manual/Editing, creating, and maintaining articles/Monitoring changes#Adding pages to your watchlist. —Stephen (Talk) 14:53, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
That's what I feared. I need to add all pages to my watchlist, one by one... I was more looking for a way to pull up all discussions of a given project space (all Navajo verbs for instance). Let's say someone adds a discussion to a verb I'm not "watching", I will never be aware of it... Julien Daux (talk) 17:05, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
In the Wikipedia article, w:Help:Wikipedia: The Missing Manual/Editing, creating, and maintaining articles/Monitoring changes#Multiple watchlists, it talks about multiple watchlists. I have not tried it, but it looks like you can add all the Navajo pages to a user subpage, and then use the "Related changes" in Tools (left side of your screen) to see changes in the list of entries. I have a lot of Navajo pages listed at User talk:Stephen G. Brown/text3 and User talk:Stephen G. Brown/text3a. Or you could copy all the entries from the lemma and verb categories. But, as I said, I have not tried this, so I am not sure about it. —Stephen (Talk) 17:26, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
I just now tried using "Related changes" on my User talk:Stephen G. Brown/text3, and it showed me this:
28 November 2016
(diff | hist) . . bí‎; 15:35 . . (+9)‎ . . ‎Angr (talk | contribs | block)‎ (→‎Etymology 1) [rollback 1 edit]
(diff | hist) . . m atłʼó‎; 00:17 . . (0)‎ . . ‎Julien Daux (talk | contribs | block)‎ (→‎Etymology) [rollback 1 edit]
27 November 2016
(diff | hist) . . hooghan‎; 11:03 . . (-9)‎ . . ‎Julien Daux (talk | contribs | block)‎ (→‎Navajo) [rollback 1 edit]
26 November 2016
(diff | hist) . . god‎; 01:50 . . (-34)‎ . . ‎ (talk | block)‎ [rollback 1 edit]
(diff | hist) . . ahigą́‎; 00:33 . . (+10)‎ . . ‎Julien Daux (talk | contribs | block)‎ (→‎Navajo) [rollback 4 edits]
and so on. —Stephen (Talk) 17:31, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
When I tried the "related changes" on the Navajo verb space, it only shows the changes to the page, not to the talk page. For instance, you answered by question on náasee's talk page, but this doesn't show up on the "related changes" page, as far as I tried. Julien Daux (talk) 17:38, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
Right. In the Wikipedia article w:Help:Wikipedia: The Missing Manual/Editing, creating, and maintaining articles/Monitoring changes#Adding pages to your watchlist, it shows this illustration:

Wikipedia-The Missing Manual 0610.png

So you would have to add talk pages to the list, like this:

December 2016[edit]

WT:Translation requests[edit]

Hi Stephen, why is it that there are lots of requests coming from different parts of India (usually)? And some of them are bogus? I think you should consider maybe being more stricter and making sure only requests for an actual cause be done. And also make sure they use correct grammar when you can. Surely that will make your life easier – AWESOME meeos * (「欺负」我) 11:22, 8 December 2016 (UTC)

Most of the Indian stuff is from native Indians. In many cases, they simply can't write good English. In other cases, they got the English somewhere and can't understand it. There is no use asking for good grammar, they can't manage it. Asking for explanations or better English, or for more information is never successful. On a couple of occasions, I have talked to some of the Indians on Facebook and they seem desperate for some help. I just do the best I can. When I can't, I ignore. Most of the translations to Afrikaans are for people writing to their friends and family, and they can speak it but can't write it (also can't write English). So different languages tend to have different sorts of users making the requests. Spanish is often to girlfriends or potential girlfriends. Sometimes requests are for someone who wants to understand a comment or make a comment on a talk page or on Facebook. Sanskrit is usually for tattoos. Japanese and Chinese are frequently for tattoos. Sometimes we get requests that are obviously homework, and we don't do homework. Sometimes we get material that is clearly commercial, and we don't do that, because it impacts professional translators. —Stephen (Talk) 12:01, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
This sounds so true! Yet, lots of them don't even specify target languages! – AWESOME meeos * (「欺负」我) 21:45, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
Well, a lot of them think it's an automatic computerized translation arrangement. They try it to see how it works, and when it doesn't work at all, they leave. —Stephen (Talk) 22:18, 8 December 2016 (UTC)

How many languages??[edit]

Just another question. How do you know how to write in so many languages? Have you been to the countries where they speak it? – AWESOME meeos * (「欺负」我) 21:50, 8 December 2016 (UTC)

I was a professional translator/interpreter for many years and I operated a couple of translation agencies for a long time. I proofread many thousands of translations in a lot of languages. Now I'm retired. Yes, I've been to most of the countries where they speak it. Lived in a number of them. Some countries, such as the Soviet Union, I could not visit at all, because of my security clearance. —Stephen (Talk) 22:24, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
Have you been to modern-day Russia (post soviet era) May I call you a polyglot? – AWESOME meeos * (「欺负」我) 01:01, 9 December 2016 (UTC)
No, I have never been there. I'm sure I could legally go now, but responsibilities make travel almost impossible. —Stephen (Talk) 16:56, 10 December 2016 (UTC)


Do you know what this is? It's something related to advertising in Ecuador (page 17), or

2015 October 15, “Guayaquil dejó de ser una ‘ciudad de paso’”, in El Universo[5]:
Se mantendrán pautajes con canales de televisión como CNN, Discovery Channel, entre otros.

DTLHS (talk) 17:58, 16 December 2016 (UTC)

I reckon it's just from the verb pautar. So something like "laying down a norm". Or simply "to advertise". --Derrib9 (talk) 18:10, 16 December 2016 (UTC)
It's used strictly in Ecuador and is not widely understood by most Spanish speakers. I have not seen it in dictionary, but it seems to mean something like: ads, advertising, and also guidelines, logging. I will ask some friends what they can tell me about it. —Stephen (Talk) 05:14, 17 December 2016 (UTC)


Hi Stephen, if you can understand the question above, can you answer it! (My answer is no.)AWESOME meeos * (「欺负」我) 07:28, 19 December 2016 (UTC)

My answer is also no. —Stephen (Talk) 07:39, 19 December 2016 (UTC)

St. Stephen's Dayuh?[edit]

ta4uredits!:) 13:49, 26 December 2016 (UTC)

Think nothing of it. —Stephen (Talk) 17:24, 27 December 2016 (UTC)

Help to Telugu language[edit]

I am very thankful for your timely help and clearing my doubts in creating and expanding the Telugu language entries. You helped me in 2012 in creating Index:Telugu. Can you help me in expanding it by adding the entries till now.Rajasekhar1961 (talk) 07:03, 28 December 2016 (UTC)

I will try to obtain a list of all the Telugu lemmas. I have left a request at Wiktionary:Grease pit/2016/December#dump. —Stephen (Talk) 07:44, 28 December 2016 (UTC)
Thank you very much sir. Can I update the existing Index:Telugu adding the new pages? May I follow the same system?--Rajasekhar1961 (talk) 03:42, 29 December 2016 (UTC)
Yes, that sounds good. —Stephen (Talk) 03:45, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

January 2017[edit]

What is India like?[edit]

I suspect from the things you do in Wiktionary suggest that you have been to India. What languages do they speak? Do they have any influence from western cultures, and mix it with their own? One severe example is the dish चिकन टिक्का मसाला (cikan ṭikkā masālā), with origins from Scotland – AWESOME meeos * (「欺负」我) 23:42, 7 January 2017 (UTC)

Also, I suggest the Armenian GranshanAWESOME meeos * (「欺负」我) 23:54, 7 January 2017 (UTC)
No, I have not been to India. I've only been around North America and to Europe, Asia Minor, and North Africa. I have studied some of the languages of India, however. w:Chicken tikka masala is said to have originated in Scotland, but not necessarily by a Scotsman. There are lots of Indian immigrants in GB, and one of them may well have made the first Chicken tikka masala. India, as I'm sure you know, was a British colony for some time, and having 1,652 different languages spoken there, has adopted English as a lingua franca. —Stephen (Talk) 23:57, 7 January 2017 (UTC)

Late reply[edit]

Sorry Mr Stephen for late replies.Ndinonyanyogona Shona - Takudzwa Chaita

Kwaziwai, Takudzwa. Ndinovimba kuti wapora. Wadzidzei sei kutaura mutauro wokuSpain? —Stephen (Talk) 22:50, 17 January 2017 (UTC)

Typography and Linguistics[edit]

Hi Stephen, according to your user page, two of your primary interests include what I said just above. Did you know that I heard of this Armenian-based competition called Granshan where one can upload fonts of various scripts for different languages and win prizes from them? Just saying – AWESOME meeos * (「欺负」我) 21:49, 17 January 2017 (UTC)

Yes, I have done lots of both over the years. I stopped designing typefaces around 14 years ago, though. The technology underwent a major change (from TrueType and PostScript to OpenType. For TrueType and PostScript, there were a couple of excellent font-editing programs such as Fontographer, where a good program was a complete tool and all of the work could be handled by that program. When OpenType fonts appeared, no single font program could do all of the work. You needed a good editor, then you had to have a separate hints program and a third program for kerning, and, IIRC, yet another program to handle the shaping engine. At the same time, the importance and need for good fonts dropped off steeply. A new technology evolved for font embedding (either into websites or into browsers), and traditional fonts were not much needed any more.
About a year ago we had an Albanian editor who wanted to creat specialist fonts, and he asked for my help. However, it would have required a large investment in money and time, and the fonts would not be used by anyone but him, so I declined the invitation.
Over the past 14 years, a lot of work has been invested in a new font-editing program (by the same people who made Fontographer), so I presume that the editing tools are much better and more integrated now, but the problem remains that there is not much need for new fonts. Also, fonts used to be expensive, and therefore creating them was a lucrative profession. Today, people expect fonts to be free of charge. —Stephen (Talk) 22:38, 17 January 2017 (UTC)

February 2017[edit]

What do you prefer?[edit]

Humanist sans-serif or Grotesque sans-serif – AWESOME meeos * (chōmtī hao /t͡ɕoːm˩˧.tiː˩˧ haw˦˥/) 12:09, 15 February 2017 (UTC)

Humanist sans-serif. Humanist fonts have a calligraphic structure (unlike the Grotesques), their letter shapes lead the eye along horizontal lines, and they are the best of the sans serif fonts for long reading and small text. —Stephen (Talk) 09:05, 16 February 2017 (UTC)

This might interest you[edit]

Noto Fonts, a project by Google that combines typography and linguistics together! I use some of their fonts too! (including my global styling page) — AWESOME meeos * (chōmtī hao /t͡ɕoːm˩˧.tiː˩˧ haw˦˥/) 11:06, 21 February 2017 (UTC)

Thanks. Until recently, I think I had fonts for every script used on Wiktionary and Wikipedia, but then my computer failed and I replaced it. I still have not located and installed all of the fonts I need. —Stephen (Talk) 11:28, 21 February 2017 (UTC)

March 2017[edit]

Request to change User:EyjentjimUser:EyjentJim[edit]

Hi Stephen!

I'd like to use EyjentJim as username instead of Eyjentjim. Please change it to EyjentJim for emphasis.

 Eyjentjim (talk) 16:48, 1 March 2017 (UTC)
Done. —Stephen (Talk) 16:59, 1 March 2017 (UTC)
Thank you so much, Stephen. Enjoy your day :) -- EyjentJim (talk) 17:01, 1 March 2017 (UTC)

Favourite fonts[edit]

Hi Stephen what are yours? Mine are, to say a few are Fedra Sans, San Francisco, Avenir, Roboto and Proxima NovaAWESOME meeos * (не нажима́йте сюда́ [nʲɪ‿nəʐɨˈmajtʲe sʲʊˈda]) 05:24, 4 March 2017 (UTC)

Some of my favorites include ITC Tiffany, Helvetica, Bodoni, Garamond, Futura, Baskerville, Caslon, Univers, Gill Sans, Franklin Gothic, Minion, Clarendon, Graffiti Classic, Stymie, Goudy, and Bella. Some of these have modern variants that have some worthwhile improvements. For example, modernized versions of Helvetica include Helios (which employs w:ink traps) and Triumvirate. —Stephen (Talk) 20:48, 4 March 2017 (UTC)

About translations[edit]

How are you able to translate to/from so many languages with just a level 2 on your user page? To be clear, I am not criticizing your translations; they are quite perfect. --kc_kennylau (talk) 05:30, 5 March 2017 (UTC)

To be honest, I've never really understood the Babel levels. There are numerous ways to use a language, including speaking, hearing, reading, and writing, and also translating into, translating from, and familiarity with different registers, different technologies, and a lot more besides. So my level numbers are just subjective choices that I made while thinking of a specific but now forgotten use eleven or twelve years ago. I think the level numbers don't mean much. —Stephen (Talk) 07:37, 5 March 2017 (UTC)

'Ancient' forms in modern fonts[edit]

Hi Stephen, you might think that I'm obsessed with typography now. I am an amateur typographer. I've heard of stories of typographers designing Greek and Cyrillic fonts to compliment their Latin fonts, but those designers' native script is Latin. But their Greek and Cyrillic fonts are criticised by native readers of Greek and Cyrillic, due to having ancient forms in their 'modern' fonts. Do you know of some examples. I'm trying not to make the mistakes that those designers made. — AWESOME meeos * (не нажима́йте сюда́ [nʲɪ‿nəʐɨˈmajtʲe sʲʊˈda]) 04:16, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

Are you talking about the pre-1918 Russian alphabet (which included the now obsolete letters Іі, Ѳѳ, Ѣѣ, Ѵѵ), or fonts capable of typing the ancient languages, such as Old East Slavic, Church Slavonic, and so on, which require the additional letters , Ѥ, Є, Ѧ, Ѫ, Ѩ, Ѭ, Ѯ, Ѻ, Ѱ, , Ѳ, Ѵ, Ѷ, Ҁ, Ѹ, Ѡ, Ѿ, , Ѣ?
I assume you mean the latter. The only criticism that I can imagine would be that certain fonts were used for setting Cyrillic type from about 900–1500 AD, and that these critics feel that only fonts that are identical to those ancient fonts should ever be used for the ancient languages. I don't support that idea at all. For one thing, Old Church Slavonic is still in use today in the Russian Orthodox Church. I know a priest in Southwestern Alaska who speaks, reads, and writes Russian, English, Yup'ik, and Old Church Slavonic, and he also has need of fonts for these languages so that he can print out material in those languages. He does not normally seek out specifically ancient typefaces, but he likes typefaces that are somewhat ornate but still modern.
If a font user wants to use Helvetica to set text in English and Church Slavonic, that's his business and he should be able to find the fonts he likes. If critics don't like Church Slavonic set in Helvetica, they are welcome to avoid using the font for that purpose. The fact that ancient letters are included in the font does not affect them in any way.
And no, I don't know of any examples. —Stephen (Talk) 23:00, 8 March 2017 (UTC)
@Awesomemeeos ? —suzukaze (tc) 23:08, 8 March 2017 (UTC)


Do you think the lemma should be at the singular or plural? Googling it there seems to be a lot of variation (and also variation with masculine and feminine, but feminine seems more common). DTLHS (talk) 17:32, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

The lemma should be captahuellas, which is masculine singular as well as plural: el captahuellas, los captahuellas. If Spanish were to have a specific plural form of the word, it would be "captanhuellas" (literally, they-pick-up-fingerprints), but, luckily, Spanish does not bother with this (i.e., the number is in the verb capta/captan, not in the direct object). —Stephen (Talk) 23:14, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

Roots in Navajo noun entries[edit]

Hi Steven, I'd like to get your thoughts on the following matter... I'm trying to add root information to Navajo noun entries, and I hesitate between various formats. Let's take the example of naaldlooshii dadichʼízhii (reptile) (en passant, I don't understand why it is not naaldlooshii naaʼnaʼii instead but let's say). I came up with two main solutions:

Etymology: original format[edit]

naaldloosh (it is trotting about) + -ii (nominalizer) + da- (plural prefix) + dichʼíízh (rough, scaly) + -ii (nominalizer)

Etymology: inline solution[edit]

naaldloosh (it is trotting about, from -DLOOZH) + -ii (nominalizer) + da- (plural prefix) + dichʼíízh (rough, scaly, from -CHʼIIZH) + -ii (nominalizer)

Etymology: offload solution[edit]

naaldloosh (it is trotting about) + -ii (nominalizer) + da- (plural prefix) + dichʼíízh (rough, scaly) + -ii (nominalizer)

See roots -DLOOZH, -CHʼIIZH.


Which one do you like best?

Julien Daux (talk) 08:14, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

Hi, Julien. I would prefer the inline solution (2nd solution).
By the way, I am wondering about an entry such as -lah. Of course, it should redirect the reader to alah (or maybe to halah instead), but -lah itself also merits an entry as a stem noun. It's not a ROOT, but it is similar. Y&M list it as a stem noun in their Analytical Lexicon (page 365). Mainly I am asking about what part of speech for the header (Noun?, Suffix?) and what categories. —Stephen (Talk) 01:05, 13 March 2017 (UTC)
Thank you.
So, I implemented a new template with the inline solution, you can now check naaldlooshii dadichʼízhii again. You can see that categories are automatically added to the bottom of the page.
An alternative solution could also be to not add the "from <ROOT>" mention in the gloss of the constituent terms but still keep the categories. This would avoid cluttering up the Etymology section while staying in line with the objective (link nouns to roots). Would you favor that?
Two more questions on the topic:
1. Do you think it's worth separating verbs from nouns in the root categories? For instance, the category Category:Navajo terms belonging to the root -DLOOZH (go on all four) now contains both verbs and nouns. What would you think of a sub-category for nouns within this category?
2. For terms like naaldlooshii bikéshgaan hólónígíí (ungulate), where the middle term is itself a compound noun (ké "foot" + gaan "dried up" = dried foot = hoof), would you have the entire phrase be linked to all for roots (-DLOOZH, -KEEʼ, -GAN, -LĮ́Į́ʼ), or would you consider -KEEʼ and -GAN too deep for warranting affiliation between these and the entry phrase? In a way, this amounts to saying, how would you write the etymology of this phrase?
a. naaldloosh ("it trots along") + -ii + bi- + -késhgaan ("nail") + hólǫ́ ("there is") + ígíí, or
b. naaldloosh ("it trots along") + -ii + bi- + -ké- ("foot") + -sh- + -gaan ("dried up") + hólǫ́ ("there is") + ígíí, or
c. naaldloosh ("it trots along") + -ii + bi- + -késhgaan ("nail", from -ké- ("foot") + -sh- + -gaan ("dried up")) + hólǫ́ ("there is") + ígíí ?
Proposition c is the more accurate, but starts to be somewhat clumpy, and we haven't added roots yet, if ever we think we should add roots to deeper noun phrases.
To your question: I'm not sure I would consider -lah a stem. Just because it is an anlienable noun, doesn't mean that is more of a stem than say tsé. There's a point though for terms like ~ -keeʼ. I'll have to think it through. For me the main problem with these inalienable nouns is more that the lemma chosen here is sometimes the a- form, sometimes the bi- form, sometimes the ha- form, sometimes the "stem" form (like -lah), and sometimes all 4 at the same time!!
Regards, Julien Daux (talk) 05:32, 13 March 2017 (UTC)
@Julien Daux, the reason why people don't say naaldlooshii naaʼnaʼii for reptile is that both naaldlooshii and naaʼnaʼii are movements, and it makes no sense to describe a creature with both of them.
"An alternative solution could also be to not add the "from <ROOT>" mention in the gloss" ... I don't think the etymology section is too cluttered, but I don't have a strong opinion on this.
1. "Do you think it's worth separating verbs from nouns in the root categories?" ... I think it is probably easier to find these things if they are not separated, but kept together. I'm just not sure what to call them (the nouns as opposed to the verb roots). It might be helpful to have the nouns together with the verb roots, and also to have a subcategory for the nouns.
2. "a. naaldloosh ("it trots along") + -ii + bi- + -késhgaan ("nail") + hólǫ́ ("there is") + ígíí, or" ... What I have been doing in cases such as this is to write something like this:
a. naaldloosh ("it trots along") + -ii + akéshgaan ("hoof") + hólǫ́ ("there is") + ígíí ... and then put the etymology of -késhgaan at akéshgaan. That is, I would move as much of the etymology as possible out of naaldlooshii bikéshgaan hólónígíí (ungulate) and into naaldloosh, akéshgaan, and hólǫ́. —Stephen (Talk) 00:25, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
1. Reptile
Then maybe naaldeehii naaʼnaʼii would be a better fit?
2. "from <ROOT>" clutter
OK, I'll keep it in.
3. Root categories
I think we're not talking about the same thing here. I'm not talking about verb roots or noun roots, but about derived verbs and derived nouns from the same (verb) root, like naaldloosh and naaldlooshii now part of the same category (terms belonging to the root -DLOOZH... )
So what I meant is keep all derived "terms" (derived nouns + derived verbs) in the Category:Navajo terms belonging to the root -DLOOZH (go on all four) category and create two subcategories within it, Category:Navajo verbs belonging to the root -DLOOZH (go on all four) and Category:Navajo nouns belonging to the root -DLOOZH (go on all four) . I can easily create those 664 (!) subcategories provided one allows me to run a bot... :).
4. Etymology
So you would say that naaldlooshii bikéshgaan hólónígíí only "belongs" to roots -DLOOZH and -LĮ́Į́ʼ, and not to -KÉ and -GAN also? (Granted, -LĮ́Į́ʼ is not a very exciting root to belong to, but I'm taking at least for the other three)
Also, since naaldlooshii is already an entry of its own, why wouldn't the etymology be directly: naaldlooshii ("animal") + akéshgaan ("hoof") + hólǫ́ ("there is") + ígíí? If bikéshgaan doesn't need expansion, so shouldn't naaldlooshii, but I don't have a strong opinion on that.
Then, in order to keep the link to the roots, we could also rephrase it as :
naaldlooshii (animal, from -DLOOZH) + akéshgaan (hoof, from -KÉ and -GAN) + hólǫ́ (there is, from -LĮ́Į́ʼ) + ígíí.
That would be nice to keep this links among all derived entries and roots.

Julien Daux (talk) 01:39, 14 March 2017 (UTC)

@Julien Daux, 3. "I'm not talking about verb roots or noun roots, but about derived verbs and derived nouns from the same (verb) root" ... Oh, I see. Yes, I misunderstood. In this case, then, verbs are already categorized under Category:Navajo verbs, and nouns under Category:Navajo nouns. So, in regard to derivations under the same verbal root, I think I would just keep them all together in one category Category:Navajo terms belonging to the root -DLOOZH (go on all four). I don't think subcategories are needed.
4. "So you would say that naaldlooshii bikéshgaan hólónígíí only "belongs" to roots -DLOOZH and -LĮ́Į́ʼ, and not to -KÉ and -GAN also?"' ... Yes, that makes sense to me.
"Also, since naaldlooshii is already an entry of its own, why wouldn't the etymology be directly: naaldlooshii ("animal") + akéshgaan ("hoof") + hólǫ́ ("there is") + ígíí?" ... Yes, I agree, that's better.
"naaldlooshii (animal, from -DLOOZH) + akéshgaan (hoof, from -KÉ and -GAN) + hólǫ́ (there is, from -LĮ́Į́ʼ) + ígíí" ... I see what you mean. Yes, it's probably a good idea to keep the links to roots all together like this. —Stephen (Talk) 11:19, 15 March 2017 (UTC)
Thank you, I'll go from there! Will keep me busy for the next couple years... Haha.
Regarding the categories for nouns and verbs, is that possible in wiktionary to get all the entries which cross-cut 2 categories? (=words belonging to both "Navajo nouns" and "Navajo terms belonging to root -DLOOZH" for instance). Julien Daux (talk) 16:14, 16 March 2017 (UTC)
@Julien Daux, yes, it sounds like an ambitious project. As for entries that belong to 2 categories, I think it is possible to find them by using a data dump. Someone at Wiktionary:Grease pit knows how to do that kind of thing. Wiktionary:Grease pit is where our programmers and computer geeks hang out. —Stephen (Talk) 21:58, 16 March 2017 (UTC)
If you type incategory:"Navajo nouns" incategory:"Navajo terms belonging to the root -DLOOZH (go on all four)" into the search box, it comes up with naaldlooshii dadichʼízhii. There's more detail about MW search capabilities at mw:Help:CirrusSearch. Chuck Entz (talk) 03:21, 17 March 2017 (UTC)
Thanks for the tip, I didnʼt know that! Julien Daux (talk) 05:22, 17 March 2017 (UTC)

Telugu dialogues[edit]

Can you go through this online book available in Google books. [6] It is entitled : "Dialogues in Telugu and English with a Grammatical Analysis" by C.P.Brown. Can I use it in giving examples for the usage of some Telugu phrases. May I request you to make a template for it to be used as a Reference. Can you prepare an example page. Thanking you.--Rajasekhar1961 (talk) 09:57, 15 March 2017 (UTC)

I looked at the copyright information here, but it was not clear to me. I can't be sure that using phrases exactly as written is permitted. Of course, simple words such as అవును (avunu), లేదు (lēdu), నేను వున్నాను (nēnu vunnānu), మీరు ఉన్నారు (mīru unnāru), నేను అర్థం లేదు (nēnu arthaṃ lēdu), etc., are okay to use. I suggest that complex phrases could be changed a little. For example, నేను వేడి నీటి కావలసిన (nēnu vēḍi nīṭi kāvalasina), నా బూట్ ఎక్కడ? (nā būṭ ekkaḍa?) could be changed to నేను కొన్ని వెచ్చని నీటి కావలసిన (nēnu konni veccani nīṭi kāvalasina), నా బూట్లు ఎక్కడ? (nā būṭlu ekkaḍa?). Since we are not copying exactly, there is no need for a reference.
Here is how to make examples:
  1. నా బూట్లు ఎక్కడ?nā būṭlu ekkaḍa?Where are my shoes?
  1. నా బూట్లు ఎక్కడ?
    nā būṭlu ekkaḍa?
    Where are my shoes?
    —Stephen (Talk) 10:48, 15 March 2017 (UTC)
Thank you for your suggestion. w:Charles Phillip Brown, the author died in 1884. This particular book is published in 1853. All his works, I think are definitely copyright free. We are already using his Telugu-English dictionary in English wiktionary. Thank you very much.--Rajasekhar1961 (talk) 12:56, 15 March 2017 (UTC)
Okay, I have made {{R:te:Dialogue}}. I'm not sure if it will work, though. It has been a long time since we did the other Reference templates, and I don't remember how it worked or what it was supposed to do. Try this one and see if it works. Put the template into an entry and add a page number, such as this: {{R:te:Dialogue|44|head=లేదు}}. —Stephen (Talk) 21:26, 15 March 2017 (UTC)
I have used the template in the page కోర (kōra). If I am giving the page number, it is searching in the text and taking to that page. So I have mentioned the lesson number of the section. Telugu search is not working in google books. Thank you for the help. Check that page, for any other errors.--Rajasekhar1961 (talk) 04:51, 16 March 2017 (UTC)
I have also used the template in some other pages. Please check them. Thank you.--Rajasekhar1961 (talk) 11:03, 16 March 2017 (UTC)
You put in "42", and that is what it searched for. It does not search for anything else. Besides, Google search doesn't work for Telugu words, because it only knows the English alphabet. But this template will only search for the page number, such as "42". —Stephen (Talk) 21:35, 16 March 2017 (UTC)
I checked some other pages where you used the template, but they all indicated page No. 42. It seems to be working correctly. —Stephen (Talk) 21:40, 16 March 2017 (UTC)

Chameleon and horsetail[edit]

I don't know if you saw this edit and my note on the talk pageʼashǫ́ʼii_łahgo_ánééhé. Not sure if you have any insight with regard to this issue? Thx. Julien Daux (talk) 17:08, 20 March 2017 (UTC)

Hmm. I will ask him about it. Seb usually prefers e-mail discussion and avoids talk pages. I don't have much insight here, because ánééh is such a complex, difficult verb. Thanks for fixing tsé nástáán. I had a dream about it last night and realized that a letter was missing. —Stephen (Talk) 17:48, 20 March 2017 (UTC)
OK, let's wait what he says. In any case, the head noun doesn't match the page's name anymore now, and the link to the nv.Wikipedia page is still pointing to the anééhé entry there. Normally, this should be considered a "disruptive update"  :).
Also, there was some updates to ałtį́į́ jikʼáshí today, and according to YM, this entry should rather be ałtį́į́ʼ jikʼaashí. Maybe you could throw this question in too... Thx Julien Daux (talk) 20:44, 20 March 2017 (UTC)
I'll e-mail Seb. Well, the link won't be a problem, it's easy to fix. We have moved/renamed many pages over the years, and it often means making corrections here and on other wikis. For example, there are still a number of pages that have the misspelling "dinéʼiʼ" in the name (instead of dineʼé). When I move them, there will be a lot of linking pages that have to be adjusted as well.
ałtį́į́ jikʼáshí is more confusing. In my Y&M (1980), it lists Ałtįį Jikʼaashí (page 102, name of a canyon crossing; also the name of a jointed shrub).
Then ałtį́į́ jikʼáshí bow smoother, Equisetum kansanum (which is now called Equisetum laevigatum, smooth horsetail).
Then ałtį́į́ʼ (bow), then some other forms with ałtį́į́ʼ or ałtį́į́.
So there seems to be some confusion among ałtį́į́ʼ, ałtį́į́, and ałtįį, as well as between jikʼáshí and jikʼaashí. It is not unusual to find some misspellings and other errors in Y&M ... it's amazing that there aren't more, considering how complex it is and the state of typesetting in those days. I will ask Seb about ałtį́į́ jikʼáshí/ałtį́į́ʼ jikʼaashí. He lives in the Navajo-speaking areas of Arizona, so he may have a better understanding of this. —Stephen (Talk) 22:03, 20 March 2017 (UTC)
Checking the Analytical Lexicon, I found ałtį́į́ʼ (bow) and ałtį́į́ʼ jikʼaashí for Equisetum. But let's wait to see what Seb says. —Stephen (Talk) 23:11, 20 March 2017 (UTC)
I wouldn't think to comment on spelling or morphology, but ethnobiology has always been a major interest of mine. I don't know how familiar you are with the actual plant, but all that you mentioned makes sense: Equisetum is basically just hollow, jointed green stems coated with minute silica crystals (it has leaves, but they're small and insignificant). The silica makes the surface just like a fine-grained sandpaper, so it would be an excellent tool for polishing/smoothing arrows. Having a canyon location named after it makes sense, too, because in arid and semi-arid regions it only grows where there is water and shade, which are more likely in a canyon than in the open desert.If you already knew all that, please forgive the interruption. Chuck Entz (talk) 02:55, 21 March 2017 (UTC)
It was a little difficult to understand why they call it "bow polisher". When I look at photos of it, it reminds me of seaweed, which is soft and delicate. With silica crystals, it makes sense. —Stephen (Talk) 04:04, 21 March 2017 (UTC)
@Julien Daux, still no answer from Seb. Sometimes he can be difficult to work with. If he doesn't answer, then I have no suggestions. —Stephen (Talk) 01:38, 23 March 2017 (UTC)
Let's wait a little more... So the changes to ałtį́į́ʼ jikʼaashí you did weren't following his answer? Julien Daux (talk) 11:40, 23 March 2017 (UTC)
No, I changed ałtį́į́ʼ jikʼaashí because of the evidence I found in the Analytical Lexicon. While the Y&M dictionary used various spellings, the Lexicon only listed ałtį́į́ʼ jikʼaashí. Also, the Lexicon indicates that no mode or aspect of -KʼAAZH has high tone. If there were a form such as "-kʼáásh", appended the suffix -í or -ígíí to it would mutate to "-kʼáshí", but there is no "-kʼáásh". So I am convinced that ałtį́į́ʼ jikʼaashí is correct (although it is possible that some people say "ałtį́į́ jikʼáshí"). —Stephen (Talk) 05:16, 24 March 2017 (UTC)
I agree, internal evidence strongly pointed to ałtį́į́ʼ jikʼaashí to be the correct one, include the glottal stop at the end of ałtį́į́ʼ -- I know of no word in Navajo where final į́į́ would stand on its own without being closed by a glottal stop or a h, at least in the prevailing orthography. Julien Daux (talk) 22:12, 24 March 2017 (UTC)

Hindi Translation Request[edit]

Hi Steph, at diff, there was a request in Hindi to English. I was actually very surprised that the user could not write in Devanāgarī. So I had to write it in Devanāgarī to show the correct spelling, as well as translating. Why can't they write with the original script. — AWESOME meeos * ([nʲɪ‿bʲɪ.spɐˈko.ɪtʲ]) 01:43, 29 March 2017 (UTC)

P.S. I reckon the sentence represents female speech, am I right? — AWESOME meeos * ([nʲɪ‿bʲɪ.spɐˈko.ɪtʲ]) 01:43, 29 March 2017 (UTC)
तुम्हे is misspelled. It should be तुम्हें (tumhẽ).
You shouldn't be surprised that the user could not write Devanagari. It's quite common. There are all sorts of circumstances: many people don't know Hindi at all. There are lots of people who can speak it, but not read it or write it. There are people who can read the Devanagari, but not the Roman spelling (the IP may well have received the message in Roman letters and cannot read Romanized Hindi). There are lots of people who can read it and write it, but who do not have the fonts or keyboards to type it, or who don't know how to type it. Lots of people can manage to write or type, but can't spell. There are lots of Indians in other parts of India, such as Tamil Nadu, who can speak Hindi, but may not be able to read or write it. And there are many other possibilities. People bring us what they have, or what they can manage, and are just looking for a little help.
Or it might be an American who has a Hindi girl friend or boy friend. Or an American who saw it in a talk page or bulletin board and just wondered what it was. So many possibilities.
It could have been either male or female. —Stephen (Talk) 02:12, 29 March 2017 (UTC)

April 2017[edit]

Khmer equivalent of these words[edit]

Привет, Стивен. Какой кхмерский эквивалент тайского อดีต (à-dìit), лаосского ອາດີດ ('ā dīt), бирманского အတိတ် (a.tit), хинди अतीत (atīt) и бенгальского অতীত (ôtit)? Я был удивлён, что не нашёл существительного в кхмерском словаре Sealang. Есть អតីត, но используется ли оно как существительное? --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 04:31, 2 April 2017 (UTC)

Хотя это и прилагательное в кхмерском языке, слово អតីត (a’dɨt, a’tǝyta’) — правильное слово. Чтобы создать существительное, нужно добавить ещё одно слово: អតីតកាល (a’dɨt kaal), អតីតភាព (a’dɨt pʰiep), или អតីតសម័យ (a’dɨt sa’may). —Stephen (Talk) 10:08, 2 April 2017 (UTC)
Понял, спасибо :) --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 10:43, 2 April 2017 (UTC)

Telugu as abbreviations[edit]

Kindly look at this page (u). It is also used as abbreviation. I have given the reference. There are some more Telugu letters used as abbreviations like (ma), శా (śā). etc. Is it O.K.--Rajasekhar1961 (talk) 14:18, 7 April 2017 (UTC)

Hi, Rajasekhar. I am asking at WT:BP how to format this. It has to be different, but I don't understand it myself. When I get an answer, I'll try to explain it. —Stephen (Talk) 07:46, 8 April 2017 (UTC)
Is there any difference between (u) and ఉ. (u.) (like St and St.). Should there be two separate entries for both of them.--Rajasekhar1961 (talk) 10:48, 8 April 2017 (UTC)
It depends on the way Telugus write them. In English, we usually have a certain way to write most abbreviations, such as Mr., Mr, Mrs., kg, ml, rpm, mph, km/h, p.m., a.m., Ph.D., PhD, MD, and so on. In some cases, people write it both ways, as Ph.D. and PhD. So you should decide if it's better to write them with, without, or both. —Stephen (Talk) 12:13, 8 April 2017 (UTC)
Okay, for (u), I changed the header to ===Noun===, then used templates {{abbreviation of|ఉత్పలమాల|lang=te}} and {{abbreviation of|ఉత్తరము|lang=te}}. Then in ఉత్పలమాల (utpalamāla) and ఉత్తరము (uttaramu), I added a section for ====Synonyms==== with a link to (u). I don't like this format very much, and I have a feeling that nobody actually knows what to do with abbreviations. I hope this helps. —Stephen (Talk) 19:15, 8 April 2017 (UTC)
Thank you for taking very much interest in Telugu language entries. In Telugu, we write both ways as (u) and ఉ. (u.). Can I create the other page for ఉ. (u.) following similar method.--Rajasekhar1961 (talk) 09:09, 9 April 2017 (UTC)
Yes, using a format like PhD, which links to Ph.D.. —Stephen (Talk) 09:24, 9 April 2017 (UTC)

Category:Tamil nouns[edit]

Many of the older pages that you made don't use the {{ta-noun}} template (maybe also verbs, adjectives etc.). Is there a reason why it's like that? You should have changed the templates a few months after you created those pages — that is in later 2006 ... — AWESOME meeos * ([nʲɪ‿bʲɪ.spɐˈko.ɪtʲ]) 12:29, 16 April 2017 (UTC)

{{ta-noun}} has only been around for a little over seven years. I probably have Tamil entries that are twelve years old or older. I even have entries as far back as 2002 before I had registered an account here. Wiktionary has not always been as it is today, you know. I usually do not re-do old entries unless I see an obvious mistake, and I never look at source text just to check on templates, etc. A long time ago, we had an arrangement whereby we could click on a button and open a random page (completely random or random within a certain language). When we had that, I used it a lot and frequently corrected old pages. When that capability was lost, I no longer visited old pages. —Stephen (Talk) 18:26, 17 April 2017 (UTC)
Special:RandomInCategory? —Aryamanarora (मुझसे बात करो) 13:14, 21 April 2017 (UTC)
Hmm. Doesn't work very well. It just takes me to categories. When we had the random-file button, clicking it actually opened a random page. —Stephen (Talk) 16:31, 21 April 2017 (UTC)
Works for me: Random. — Julien Daux (talk) 16:47, 21 April 2017 (UTC)
Ah. Yes, Random works. It just needed some parameters. —Stephen (Talk) 16:53, 21 April 2017 (UTC)

Little cleanup[edit]

Hi there! Thanks for all the multilingual entries! Can I ask you to have a look at the pages in Category:Tbot entries (Ukrainian), to check them and to add whatever. If so, you can remove the Tbot cleanup tag - I'm on a de-Tbot mission at the moment. Thanks!! --G23r0f0i (talk) 16:50, 16 April 2017 (UTC)

Done. —Stephen (Talk) 19:19, 17 April 2017 (UTC)
Awesome job! The Tbot entries are dwindling away, step by step. --G23r0f0i (talk) 20:08, 19 April 2017 (UTC)

Dravidian entries[edit]

I am interested to enter Telugu pages derived or linked to Dravidian languages. If you are interested we can etymologically connect the South Indian languages. This[7] Dravidian dictionary may be useful. Thanking you.--Rajasekhar1961 (talk) 05:54, 18 April 2017 (UTC)

That's a good idea. Here are some examples that we use: in the Latin word ambactus, we have the section name ====Descendants====, with modern descendants of the Latin word. In хох under ===Etymology===, we show cognates in other languages. —Stephen (Talk) 22:27, 18 April 2017 (UTC)
Take an example of కురుపు (kurupu); using the reference [8] (in entry 1780) there are many cognites in different languages. The header is Ta kuru; does that mean, the Tamil word kuru is the root word. Can you make the Etymological entry for this. How to get the script of other South Indian languages. Thank you.--Rajasekhar1961 (talk) 06:15, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
@Rajasekhar1961: Sorry to but in, but I know some Proto-Dravidian stuff. First of all, the Tamil is not the root word, but all those words are related. You should read Proto-Dravidian and look at this paper that has some examples of reconstructed Proto-Dravidian. —Aryamanarora (मुझसे बात करो) 12:37, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
குருப்பு (kuruppu). குரு (kuru), s. prickly heat, வேர்க்குரு (vērkkuru); 2. the smallpox, குருநோய் (kurunōy); 3. boil, sore, புண் (puṇ); 4. horripilation, புளகம் (puḷakam); 5. nut கொட்டை (koṭṭai). குரு ஆரால் மூக்குப்போலிருக்கிறது, the smallpox has come out well like the nose of a lamprey. குரு புறப்பட்டுச், (வார்த்து) சாக குரு விலே போக, to die of smallpox. குருவண்டு (kuruvaṇṭu), a kind of wasp.
You can probably find the Tamil spelling of words at Tamil and English Dictionary.
As Aryamanarora said, I don't think Tamil kuru is the root word. It's a cognate (meaning that both కురుపు (kurupu) and குரு (kuru)) came from the same Proto-Dravidian root. That is, కురుపు (kurupu) and குரு (kuru) are not daughter and mother, they are cousins.
You should be able to add keyboards to type the scripts of other South Indian languages. For example, on my PC computer I have Windows 10. I can add the Tamil keyboard by clicking on "Windows Settings", then "Time & Language (Speech, region, date)". Then I look in the region for India and add the Tamil keyboard. —Stephen (Talk) 19:47, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
If you want to do it, you can add Proto-Dravidian entries. We have done that for Proto-Indo-European. See for example Reconstruction:Proto-Indo-European/déh₂nu. —Stephen (Talk) 21:37, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
Or see Category:Proto-Dravidian language. Chuck Entz (talk) 03:30, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
The system appears to be very complicated; and beyond my capacity. I am basically a medical man; not a linguist. But I would like to enter the cognates in the Etymology section. Can someone or you verify their accuracy (I fear for any mistakes). Once these cognates are verified, we can go to Proto-Dravidian entries. I have done it for కురుపు (kurupu). Thanking you.Rajasekhar1961 (talk) 04:58, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
I added Tamil definitions, but otherwise, I think it's very good. —Stephen (Talk) 00:45, 21 April 2017 (UTC)
Aryamanarora and Stephen, Can you help me with అరి (ari), I have linked it to Proto-Dravidian and Sanskrit roots. Can I add the cognates of Tamil entries in this page. Kindly check it. Thank you.--Rajasekhar1961 (talk) 04:21, 21 April 2017 (UTC)
Yes. I added Tamil. —Stephen (Talk) 05:04, 21 April 2017 (UTC)
I have added Tamil cognates in అప్ప (appa), అమ్మ (amma), అర (ara), అల్లి (alli). Can you help me.--Rajasekhar1961 (talk) 11:25, 21 April 2017 (UTC)
They look good. —Stephen (Talk) 16:46, 21 April 2017 (UTC)
Do we need to add references to the Cognates. I have added Tamil cognates in అవ్వ (avva), అల్లు (allu), రెండు (reṃḍu), ఉప్పు (uppu), ఉల్లి (ulli), ఎన్ను (ennu), ఎలిక (elika), ఎలుక (eluka), ఎలుగు (elugu), గంజి (gaṃji), కట్టు (kaṭṭu). Please check them. Aryamanarora is helping their links to Proto-Dravidian roots. Thank you.--Rajasekhar1961 (talk) 08:56, 22 April 2017 (UTC)
Normally I only put the references in the entry itself, but if a cognate that is listed is controversial a reference would be good. I've added a few Proto-Dravidian entries CAT:Proto-Dravidian lemmas but my knowledge is limited and so are my sources, so it will be a slow start. —Aryamanarora (मुझसे बात करो) 18:57, 22 April 2017 (UTC)
Thank you very much for getting different languages linked through etymology.--Rajasekhar1961 (talk) 06:23, 23 April 2017 (UTC)
@Rajasekhar1961, most editors who add cognates do not list references. I don't list references. I think references could be good, but they are also extra work. —Stephen (Talk) 07:39, 23 April 2017 (UTC)
ఏనుగు (ēnugu), మార్జాలము (mārjālamu), అన్న (anna), అక్క (akka), మామ (māma), అత్త (atta), నది (nadi), కక్కు (kakku), చిల్లర (cillara), రొక్కము (rokkamu), are some more entries with Tamil cognates created. Please check them.--Rajasekhar1961 (talk) 06:08, 29 April 2017 (UTC)
Done. Looks good. —Stephen (Talk) 20:39, 29 April 2017 (UTC)
I have added some more Dravidian cognates in some Telugu words: ముక్కు (mukku), చెవి (cevi), నెత్తురు (netturu), తోక (tōka), తల (tala), ‎ తోలు (tōlu), ‎వేరు (vēru), ‎పేను (pēnu), అప్ప (appa), ‎తండ్రి (taṃḍri), ‎చిన్న (cinna), దొడ్డి (doḍḍi), ‎దొడ్డ (doḍḍa) and ‎ఐదు (aidu). Kindly check them for accuracy and make any corrections.Rajasekhar1961 (talk) 19:38, 24 May 2017 (UTC)
Done. —Stephen (Talk) 05:00, 25 May 2017 (UTC)

Thai จรวด, Lao ຈະຫລວດ (or other spellings) and Khmer កាំជ្រួច[edit]

Hi Stephen, is Khmer កាំជ្រួច (kamcruəc) the source for Thai จรวด (jà-rùuat) and Lao ຈະຫລວດ (cha lūat) terms? The pronunciation differs significantly but that's often the case. Also asking @Wyang, Octahedron80. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 05:20, 21 April 2017 (UTC)

Yes. Modern Khmer is កាំជ្រួច (kămchruŏch, firework; missile; rocket), កញ្ជ្រួច (kânhchruŏch). This is built on ច្រួច (chruŏch, to sprinkle; to splash; to squirt (with water)) < Middle Khmer crūca (to be pointed, sharp; to be keen, shrill; to shoot, spurt, to eject, to squirt; to sprinkle, to splash) < prefix /c-/ + *rūc /ruːəc/ ~ rūca (to come to an end or point; to be done, finished; to be released or freed) (> Modern Khmer រួច (ruŏch)). Wyang (talk) 05:35, 21 April 2017 (UTC)
Thanks for the detailed answer, Frank!
BTW, Stephen uses a Khmer transliteration, which is close to Sealang's, which often can't be done automatically and sometimes there are multiple readings and irregularities. We should probably come up with some method for phonetic respellings for Khmer in the future? --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 05:44, 21 April 2017 (UTC)
Привет, Анатолий. Я согласен с Вьяном. Мне кажется очень разумным. В дополнение к тому, что Вьян сказал относительно слова ច្រួច, слово កាំ означает «стрелка». —Stephen (Talk) 05:55, 21 April 2017 (UTC)
I think I spotted my name in Russian: Вьян, haha. On the topic of Khmer, are there dictionaries published which make use of phonetic respellings? If so, I can see if I am able to use them in a fashion similar to the Thai system here. Wyang (talk) 07:15, 22 April 2017 (UTC) has IPA at least. —Aryamanarora (मुझसे बात करो) 19:05, 22 April 2017 (UTC)
@Wyang Don't know if "Вьян" is right but depends how you pronounce it. I meant the custom-made phonetic respellings for Khmer like you do with Burmese. It seems MOSTLY phonetic, so only irregular readings will need those and perhaps additional symbols would be required. Words may have multiple readings, eg. អតីត (’âteit) /ʔaʔdɨt/, /ʔaʔtǝytaʔ/. I'm not yet ready to handle Khmer, just talking. I've got a Tuttle Practical Cambodian-English/English-Cambodian dictionary but Sealang, Aryamanarora mentioned (we both know it, thanks) is a definite resource, which has IPA. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 04:10, 23 April 2017 (UTC)
@Atitarev: lol, I should have known better... —Aryamanarora (मुझसे बात करो) 22:07, 26 April 2017 (UTC)


Hi, I noticed you changed the pronunciation of some /dz/, /ts/ affricates to [c], which is normally pronounced further back in the mouth (a sort of palatalized [k]). Could you please add more color as to these changes? Thank you. —Julien D. (talk) 14:12, 27 April 2017 (UTC)

I was working from a doctorate paper on Navajo phonology. I tried to find it again on the internet, but could not (I cleared my history yesterday to try to fix a problem). There are different views on representing Navajo phonology, and this paper was interesting. Since then, however, I compared the way the paper explained the phonology with what we have in Appendix:Navajo alphabet, and I think Appendix:Navajo alphabet is a better way to represent the phonology. In addition, dził was using the symbol ˩ to indicate the low tone, but I could not find any other Navajo entries that used a symbol like that. The other entries use either acute and grave accents (é or è), or just the acute accent, which I prefer. —Stephen (Talk) 18:59, 27 April 2017 (UTC)
Scholarly works do not always use standard IPA characters. We do. So some papers might use /c/ for the voiceless alveolar affricate in cases where it cannot be confused with a voiceless palatal stop, but we only use the standard /ts/. Same goes for tone marks, scholarly works may often use various accents marks to represent tones, but standard IPA uses marks like ˩ (although it seems we don't strictly follow that one). --WikiTiki89 19:02, 27 April 2017 (UTC)
Whenever I see pronunciations that use ˥ ˦ ˧ ˨ ˩ ˥˦ ˥˧ ˥˨ ˥˩ ˦˥ ˧˥ ˨˥ ˩˥ ˦˩ ˦˨ ˦˧ ˩˦ ˨˦ ˧˦, I find them difficult to read, whereas acute accents are easy. Besides that, the Navajo tone pitch is not precise, and the contours can vary depending on cadence, emotion, gender, and other factors. I have tried to get used to ˩ and the rest, but I really dislike them. —Stephen (Talk) 19:32, 27 April 2017 (UTC)
Yeah, like I said we're not that strict about using them. Theoretically, the problem with accent marks is their meaning is unclear. But sometimes, as you said yourself, that's a actually benefit. --WikiTiki89 20:45, 27 April 2017 (UTC)
Was it a paper on Navajo as spoken today, or a paper on Proto-Athabaskan phonology? Proto-Athabaskan is reconstructed to have a palatovelar series *gʸ / *kʸ / *kʸʼ ( ~ [ʝ] [c] [c’], or [c] [cʰ] [c’]), that regularly gave way to dz / ts / ts’ in Navajo, merging with the orignal *dz / *ts / *tsʼ series. —Julien D. (talk) 23:34, 27 April 2017 (UTC)
Possibly, not sure. I was focused on one particular section. The interesting part was not about ‘c’ vs. ‘ts’, but the following ʰ or ʔ that distinguish the three consonants dz, ts, and tsʼ. That is, it's not so important how the dz/ts are represented, but how the secondary articulations are handled. This is why many Navajos today like to append an ‘x’ after some of their letters, such as ahxéheeʼ. It's also why some of the early spelling systems for Navajo used ‘q’ or ‘xw’ in words such as tqin and txwó. Most of today's writers are self-taught and many of them think the letters of their alphabet have the sounds of the similar English letters, so they try to modify them with x, w, and so on. —Stephen (Talk) 18:34, 28 April 2017 (UTC)
Talking of [tʔ] or [tʔ], the standard notation for ejectives in IPA should be the same as in Navajo orthography, i.e. [t’]. That said, I don't believe IPA is a worthwhile addition to word pages since the orthography is 100% phonemical. You of course have to know that /t/ and /k/ have some velar fricative release to them, but that's a totally regular, universal and exception-less phenomenon.
Now, another traditional Navajo phonetics bit I'm not quite fond of is the description of /b/, /d/, /dz/, /g/ etc.. as voiceless consonants. Honestly, comparing the onset of dził to that of tsin in the audio links (leaving aside the aspiration), one can hardly describe the former as voiceless. Maybe as [dz̥], but certainly not as voiceless. —Julien D. (talk) 16:01, 29 April 2017 (UTC)
I'm not sure why IPA ejective notation should be the same as in Navajo orthography, but I don't have a strong feeling about it. Either way is okay with me. Although Navajo orthography is phonetic, IPA is still helpful, since most people don't know how the letters should be pronounced.
I think the pronunciations of Navajo /b/, /d/, /dz/, /g/ are gradually changing today as a result of the English voiced pronunciation of these letters. When they are pronounced correctly, according to classical Navajo phonology, I think [dz] and [ts] are both unvoiced, and that the only difference is that one is /ts/ and the other is /tsʰ/. I am hearing the same introduction of voicing to Ojibwe consonants as a result of using letters which are voiced in English. Eventually, the alphabets of these languages will change the pronunciation of the letters because the speakers are accustomed to the English practice of voicing. —Stephen (Talk) 18:34, 29 April 2017 (UTC)

English proper nouns from the Hindu Puranas[edit]

I want to create the English proper noun pages derived from Hindu Puranas. I have created some pages earlier. Can I give the reference of Puranic encyclopedia by Vettam Mani, 1975. See the link here: [9]. Kindly advise. Thank you.--Rajasekhar1961 (talk) 06:33, 29 April 2017 (UTC)

Yes, I think it's okay. There might be some difficulty with the definitions. I don't think you should copy the explanations word for word from the Puranic encyclopedia. I think you should probably reduce the definitions to a single sentence (because of the difference between a dictionary and an encyclopedia). —Stephen (Talk) 19:13, 29 April 2017 (UTC)
I have added the Reference in the page Abhimanyu. Is it OK. There is a problem in Sujata, which is name of a man and also a woman. How to enter there. Kindly help.--Rajasekhar1961 (talk) 15:26, 1 May 2017 (UTC)
It looks very good. I just changed the word "pages" to pp., which is the standard for a bibliography. A single page is p., and more than one page is pp. —Stephen (Talk) 01:52, 2 May 2017 (UTC)
I have added some more pages: Aditi, Agastya, Ahalya, Airavata. Kindly check them.--Rajasekhar1961 (talk) 03:38, 4 May 2017 (UTC)
Done. All good. —Stephen (Talk) 06:19, 4 May 2017 (UTC)
I have added few more pages: Amba, Ambika, Alakananda. Kindly check them. Thank you.--Rajasekhar1961 (talk) 12:22, 6 May 2017 (UTC)
Done. All good. —Stephen (Talk) 06:10, 8 May 2017 (UTC)
I have added few more pages: Anasuya, amrita, Ananta. Please check for any errors.Rajasekhar1961 (talk) 05:34, 9 May 2017 (UTC)
Done, all good. —Stephen (Talk) 08:04, 9 May 2017 (UTC)
I have added Arjuna, Aruna, Arundhati and modified apsara. There is some confusion in Aruna. I have also added some types of utsava in ఉత్సవము (utsavamu). Please check them.--Rajasekhar1961 (talk) 12:01, 11 May 2017 (UTC)
They look good. —Stephen (Talk) 00:12, 13 May 2017 (UTC)
Astadiggajas is created. Should it be Proper noun or plural noun, I am not clear. In etymology, please verify the division. Ashoka is also modified adding the reference. Please correct them.Rajasekhar1961 (talk) 18:06, 19 May 2017 (UTC)
That's a tough one. I think it's a plural proper noun and that the singular is also used in English, so I added the singular Astadiggaja. —Stephen (Talk) 11:36, 21 May 2017 (UTC)
Thank you for the important correction. Atikaya is added. Asura is modified. Atikaya literally means obesity also. Can we add as a separate entry as atikaya. Please check them.Rajasekhar1961 (talk) 15:19, 22 May 2017 (UTC)
Done. Yes, if atikaya has a different meaning from Atikaya, we can have a separate entry. I don't know what atikaya means. —Stephen (Talk) 12:03, 23 May 2017 (UTC)
I have created or expanded the entry words that are very closely related etymologically: Aditya and Adityas; Maheshwar and Maheshwari; Maitreya, Maitreyan and Maitreyi. Please check for any errors in their relationship. Thank you.Rajasekhar1961 (talk) 11:41, 25 May 2017 (UTC)
Done. —Stephen (Talk) 13:51, 25 May 2017 (UTC)


Привет, Стивен. Как поменять себе оболочку (skin) на вектор? Когда-то делал, но уже не помню. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 06:48, 29 April 2017 (UTC)

Привет, Анатолий. Чтобы поменять себе оболочку на вектор, выбери «Preferences», затем «Appearance». Оболочки находятся наверху. —Stephen (Talk) 19:04, 29 April 2017 (UTC)
У меня уже вектор стоит, но я не могу добавлять переводы как раньше. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 10:31, 29 April 2017 (UTC)
Я не понимаю, Анатолий, что ты имеешь в виду. Имеешь ли в виду, что ты уже используешь векторную оболочку? Если да, то в чём проблема с переводами? Ты ссылаешься на разделы «Переводы»? —Stephen (Talk) 19:04, 29 April 2017 (UTC)

May 2017[edit]


I just wanted to make sure if you removed the second audio link in this entry on purpose? Thx —Julien D. (talk) 14:43, 1 May 2017 (UTC)

Yes, on purpose. It was the same voice, but he mispronounced the word. He said "ałkʼesdisí". —Stephen (Talk) 01:38, 2 May 2017 (UTC)


Do you know the translation of this word? It has something to do with the roots of plants. DTLHS (talk) 18:08, 9 May 2017 (UTC)

Done: tillering. —Stephen (Talk) 07:20, 10 May 2017 (UTC)


Could you please check if this entry makes sense? I was trying to clean up after an anon. The given name and surname do have a few hundred bearers. I wonder if the given name would be partly a title misinterpreted? Also you seem to classify English spellings of Navajo surnames as "Navajo".--Makaokalani (talk) 09:00, 20 May 2017 (UTC)

These English spellings of Navajo terms, especially those used as personal names, are problematic. They come from words that are Navajo, and, with English respellings, they are used in English to refer to certain Navajos, yet they aren't quite English, but are hardly Navajo anymore. The Navajo word hastiin refers to mature males (something like Mr., elder, or sir). English naming conventions (given name + surname) were recently forced on the Navajo. The Bureau of Indian Affairs made all Navajos select names according to the English template, something which is alien to the Navajo culture. The BIA also required they use English spelling and no diacritics for those names, so a lot of weird stuff like this came out of it.
I cleaned it up as well as I can. —Stephen (Talk) 09:40, 21 May 2017 (UTC)


Привет, Стивен. Ты не мог бы пожалуйста сделать кхмерскую статью для សមមិត្ត, по-видимому слово происходит от пали samamitta? У неё разные транслитерации, не знаю, как лучше оформить. Это слово использовалось красными кхмерами в значении «товарищ», не так-ли? --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 07:42, 4 June 2017 (UTC)

Привет, Анатолий. Я сделал. —Stephen (Talk) 09:15, 4 June 2017 (UTC)
Спасибо, Стивен! --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 10:59, 4 June 2017 (UTC)

Telugu proverbs[edit]

Kindly go through the discussion with SemperBlotto. Can you help me, whether the changes made are o.k.Rajasekhar1961 (talk) 05:55, 20 June 2017 (UTC)

    Hi there. I don't think that the translations of these should be a single term (e.g. "like a donkey carrying sandal powder") but should be linked as individual words (because the translation will not exist as such in English). Also "sandal" should be "sandalwood". SemperBlotto (talk) 06:24, 15 June 2017 (UTC)
    Thank you for your advise. I am taking the translations directly from the reference quoted (without changing). Can you give some example of how to link the translations to each of the English word. Thank you.Rajasekhar1961 (talk) 06:28, 15 June 2017 (UTC)
    As you have suggested I have made some changes in some pages about Category:Telugu proverbs. Please check whether they are fine.Rajasekhar1961 (talk) 13:51, 19 June 2017 (UTC)
I looked at a couple of the proverbs and I think they are good, with one possible problem. In a few proverbs, I do not understand the deeper meaning. For example, the translation of అందని పూలు దేవునికి అర్పణ is "An offering to the deity of the flowers which cannot be reached." I understand the words, but I cannot understand what it means. If you know the deeper meaning, it would be good to explain the meaning. —Stephen (Talk) 06:57, 20 June 2017 (UTC)
అందని ద్రాక్షపండ్లు పుల్లన is another Telugu proverb with similar explanation. In both, when you are not able to reach the target, you consider it as bad.Rajasekhar1961 (talk) 07:24, 20 June 2017 (UTC)
There are two published works by M.W.Carr on Telugu proverbs, both are available in google books (Telugu proverbs (1868) and Supplement (1868)). There are about 2700 proverbs with English translations. I am using them as resources. But as you have mentioned, some of them does not have explanation. Can I use them as quotations for the Wiktionary entries. Is there any limitation, in Wiktionary, in using them as separate Proverb pages. Kindly clarify my doubt and if possible, we can discuss about it any other platform. I do not want them to be removed, though the language is a bit old.Rajasekhar1961 (talk) 07:00, 24 June 2017 (UTC)
Telugu proverbs (1868) and the Supplement (1868) both look good. I think they will be helpful. Yes, I think it will be okay to use them as quotations. I don't think there is any limitation. —Stephen (Talk) 07:53, 24 June 2017 (UTC)
Thank you very much, sir. I will continue to create separate pages for these Telugu proverbs and wherever possible add them as quotation in the corresponding Wiktionary pages. It will become a big collection of Telugu words in English Wiktionary.Rajasekhar1961 (talk) 11:36, 24 June 2017 (UTC)

Telugu plural forms[edit]

User:Octahedron80 made some programming changes in the Telugu noun template documentation and Module:te-headword. I do not how they work. Can you help me in understanding how they work and how to frame the rules to applying to Telugu plurals.Rajasekhar1961 (talk) 06:49, 28 June 2017 (UTC)

    He wrote in my talkpage as: Hello. I am working about common Telugu plural rules in Module:te-headword. Could you tell me if there are more common rules to apply to noun, for new usage of Template:te-noun? For special cases, they will not be put there. --Octahedron80 (talk) 07:46, 21 June 2017 (UTC)
Module:te-headword is written with Lua Programming Language. I don't know Lua at all. Both User:Jberkel and User:Wikitiki89 say that they are expert Lua programmers. For some other editors who know Lua, see Category:User Lua coder-3. —Stephen (Talk) 21:50, 28 June 2017 (UTC)

Two German nouns[edit]

Hi Stephen. The German nouns Bessarabiendeutscher and Wolhyniendeutscher have adjective templates in their declension sections. Is this correct? If not, could you correct them please. SemperBlotto (talk) 15:15, 4 July 2017 (UTC)

I believe this is correct. If I remember correctly, nominalized adjectives in German are inflected like the adjectives themselves. — Z. [ קהת ] b"A. — 17:45, 4 July 2017 (UTC)
Noun and adjective are two separate words: Bessarabiendeutscher (noun) and bessarabiendeutsch (adjective).
And Wolhyniendeutscher (noun) and wolhyniendeutsch (adjective).
Their declensions are correct, though. I guess it's just a minor hiccough in template naming. —Stephen (Talk) 10:12, 5 July 2017 (UTC)
OK thanks. My bot doesn't know what to do with them - I'll just ignore them. SemperBlotto (talk) 10:16, 5 July 2017 (UTC)

Telugu frequency list[edit]

The Appendix:Sanskrit frequency list 1 is very good and useful. Can you help me and prepare the Appendix:Telugu frequency list. This would help me to give priority for creating new pages of more importance. Thank you.Rajasekhar1961 (talk) 06:14, 18 July 2017 (UTC)

I searched for Telugu frequency lists, but I did not find any. I have left an inquiry at WT:GP#Frequency list. They say that they can get a list of Telugu words used in the articles of the Telugu Wikipedia. I do not know what form it will be in or how useful it will be. —Stephen (Talk) 22:33, 18 July 2017 (UTC)
Your initiative has given the list of 10,000 Telugu words in the order of frequency in Telugu Wikipedia articles. As pointed out, I am not going to create an entry for every word. But it helps me a lot in my work. Thank you very much sir.Rajasekhar1961 (talk) 12:53, 19 July 2017 (UTC)