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學習学习 (xuéxí)

This user is currently working on

  • enjoying life to the fullest through pedantic and tendentious editing
  • learning Chinese
  • improving coverage of Chinese geography
  • adding second round simplified characters (二𫈉字) to Chinese entries
  • adding yitizi to Chinese entries
  • adding example sentences for Chinese entries
  • adding and checking definitions for Chinese entries
  • adding toneless final syllable variants (重·次輕詞語) to Chinese entries
  • clarifying the differences between the Mandarin pronunciation standards of Putonghua (Mainland) and Guoyu (Taiwan)
  • adding variant or popular pronunciations
  • creating and editing Chinese entries
  • fixing Mandarin Chinese pinyin orthography problems (as well as pronunciations generally)
  • adding and fixing 'Glyph origin' sections
  • adding and fixing 'Compounds' sections
  • adding character component names and stroke names
  • adding links from Wiktionary to Wikipedia and from Wikipedia to Wiktionary
Babel user information
en-N This user has a native understanding of English.
zh-3 这位用户的中文达到高级水平

This user has an advanced understanding of Zhuyin.
cmn-3 This user has advanced knowledge of Mandarin Chinese.
zh-Hant-3 這位使用者會進階水準的 繁體中文
zh-Hans-3 这位用户的简体中文达到高级水平。
nan-0 Chit-ê iōng-chiá m̄-bat Bân-lâm-gú (ia̍h-sī liáu-kái ū khùn-lân).
yue-0 呢位用戶完全唔識(或者唔係好明)廣東話
{{t}}-0 This user knows little about wiki templates and just mimics existing usage.
Users by language


Wiki statistics[edit]

Number of pages 6,543,751
Number of articles 5,907,127
Number of uploaded files 29
Number of registered users 3,512,072
Number of active users 1,586
Number of admins 101
Number of total edits 51,237,247


Rules of Pinyin Orthography[edit]

Wiktionary:About Chinese/Mandarin

I think that Wiktionary should include ALL forms of Chinese Romanizations/Pinyins and more generally all the written forms of Chinese languages that have been made in non-Chinese characters (Xiao'erjing, Zhuyin Fuhao, etc). This is a massive cornucopia of linguistic knowledge that no other dictionary can handle BUT THAT WIKTIONARY CAN. That means including all the many and various Pinyin forms with all the variations in dashes, apostrophes and spacing.

aoe開頭音節連接其它音節後面時候如果音節界限發生混淆隔音符號隔開例如piao皮襖)。 [MSC, trad.]
aoe开头音节连接其它音节后面时候如果音节界限发生混淆隔音符号隔开例如piao皮袄)。 [MSC, simp.]
From: 1956, 中國文字改革委員會 (Committee for the Reform of the Chinese Written Language),漢語拼音方案 五 隔音符號 (Scheme for the Chinese Phonetic Alphabet, Section 5: [Rules for Usage of the] Syllable-dividing Apostrophe)
A, o, e kāitóu de yīnjié liánjiē zài qítā yīnjié hòumiàn de shíhou, rúguǒ yīnjié de jièxiàn fāshēng hùnxiáo, yòng géyīn fúhào (’) gékāi, lìrú: pi’ ao (pí'ǎo). [Pinyin]
[In Hanyu Pinyin], when a syllable beginning in a, o or e is preceded by another syllable, if the division between the syllables is unclear, use the syllable-dividing apostrophe (’) to divide [the syllables]. For example: pi’ao 皮襖皮袄 (pí'ǎo)。

现代汉语词典第7版凡例 page 3 section 3.5 (seemingly identical to 现代汉语词典试用本1977 凡例 #11 excluding traditional characters) "一般轻读、间或中读的字,注音上标调号,注音前再加圆点,如:【因为】注作yīn·wèi,表示“因为”的“为”字一般轻读,有时也可以读去声。“

汉语拼音正词法基本规则6.1.2.1 (2012) as (modified in 语言文字规范标准 (2017)) reads "动词与后面的动态助词“着”“了”“过”,连写。例如:kànzhe(看着) tǎolùn bìng tōngguòle(讨论并通过了) jìnxíngguo (进行过)"

汉语拼音正词法基本规则6.1.2.1 (2012) reads "动词与后面的动态助词“着”、“了”、“过”,连写。例如:kànzhe(看着) tǎolùn bìng tōngguòle(讨论并通过了) jìnxíngguo (进行过)" (Pursuant to 标点符号用法 (语言文字规范标准, pages 498-499), the dunhao should not have been used here)

動詞後面動態助詞連寫例如kànzhetǎolùn bìng tōngguòle討論通過jìnxíngguo进行 [MSC, trad.]
动词后面动态助词连写例如kànzhetǎolùn bìng tōngguòle讨论通过jìnxíngguo进行 [MSC, simp.]
From: 2012, 汉语拼音证词法基本规则 The Basic Rules of Hanyu Pinyin Orthography, section (as in 2017, 语言文字规范标准, page 435)
Dòngcí yǔ hòumiàn de dòngtài zhùcí “zhe” “le” “guo”, liánxiě. Lìrú: kànzhe (kànzhe) tǎolùn bìng tōngguòle (tǎolùn bìng tōngguòle) jìnxíngguo (jìnxíngguo) [Pinyin]
[When writing Hanyu Pinyin], if a verb is followed by the verb tense particle 'zhe', 'le' or 'guo', no space should be added between the verb and the particle. For example: kànzhe (看着) tǎolùn bìng tōngguòle (討論並通過了) jìnxíngguo (进行過)

汉语拼音正词法基本规则(2012) “汉语地名中的专名和通名,分写,每一分写部分的首字母大写。 “

Other Idioms, Words, Quotes etc.[edit]

Rai and Jiri at Lungha. Rai

of Lowani. Lowani under two

moons. Jiri of Ubaya. Ubaya of

crossed roads. At Lungha.

Lungha. Her sky grey.

時候既然漸近故鄉天氣陰晦船艙嗚嗚一望蒼黃天底远近蕭索荒村沒有一些活氣 [MSC, trad.]
时候既然渐近故乡天气阴晦船舱呜呜一望苍黄天底远近萧索荒村没有一些活气 [MSC, simp.]
From: 1921, 魯迅 (Lu Xun), 故鄉 (My Old Home)
Shíhou jìrán shì shēn dōng; jiànjìn gùxiāng shí, tiānqì yòu yīnhuì le, lěng fēng chuī jìn chuáncāng zhōng, wūwū de xiǎng, cóng péng xì xiàng wài yīwàng, cānghuáng de tiāndǐ xià, yuǎnjìn héngzhe jǐ ge xiāosuǒ de huāngcūn, méiyǒu yīxiē huóqì. [Pinyin]
It was the deep winter as I approached my hometown- the weather was dark and gloomy. A cold wind blew into the cabin of the ship, whistling. Looking out from a gap in the awning, desolate ghost towns as far as the eye could see without a hint of life, all beneath a greenish yellow sky.


"Suppose Lord Russell this film were to be looked at by our descendants like a Dead Sea Scroll in a thousand year's time. What would you think its worth telling that generation about the life you've lived and the lessons you've learnt from it?"

Bertrand Russell:

"I should like to say two things, one intellectual and one moral.

The intellectual thing I should want to say to them is this: when you are studying any matter, or considering any philosophy, ask yourself only what are the facts, and what is the truth that the facts bear out. Never let yourself be diverted either by what you would wish to believe, or by what you think would have beneficent social effects if it were believed. But look only and solely at: what are the facts. That is the intellectual thing that I should wish to say.

The moral thing I should wish to say to them is very simple. I should say, love is wise, hatred is foolish. In this world which is getting more and more closely interconnected, we have to learn to tolerate each other; we have to learn to put up with the fact that some people say things that we don't like. We can only live together in that way and if we are to live together and not die together we must learn a kind of charity and a kind of tolerance which is absolutely vital to the continuation of human life on this planet."

"Words are not always easy for me."- Worf

讀書人機會擁有超乎個人生命體驗幸運 [MSC, trad.]
读书人机会拥有超乎个人生命体验幸运 [MSC, simp.]
From: 1997 (first published on 19 August 1995), 谢冕 (Xie Mian), 读书人是幸福人 (People that Read are Happy People) (as reproduced in 永远的校园 (Eternal School Campus), on page 161); Pinyin based on 2014, 国家语言文字工作委员会 (State Language Work Committee), 普通话水平测试实施纲要 (Putonghua Proficiency Test Test Guide), page 345
Yī gè dúshūrén, yī gè yǒu jīhuì yōngyǒu chāohū gèrén shēngmìng tǐyàn de xìngyùn rén. [Pinyin]
To those fortunate ones [among us] who read books [is] given the opportunity to go beyond [the limitation of only having access to] the experiences of our own lives.

志同道合 (zhìtóngdàohé) fungilli

Some people say I'm condescending. (refer to definition: condescending)

"The term "ideographic" has been used not only by those who espouse its basic meaning but also by others who do not necessarily accept the concept but use the term out of mere force of habit as an established popular designation for Chinese characters. I find, to my chagrin, that in my previous publications I have been guilty of precisely this concession to popular usage without being aware of the damage it can cause. As a repentant sinner I pledge to swear off this hallucinogen. I hope others will join in consigning the term to the Museum of Mythological Memorabilia along with unicorn horns and phoenix feathers." (John DeFrancis, The Chinese Language: Fact and Fantasy, page 148.

崇山峻嶺茂林修竹。」 [MSC, trad.][▼ expand/hide]
崇山峻岭茂林修竹。” [MSC, simp.]
From: Jin Dynasty (265–420), 王羲之 (Wang Xizhi), Preface to the Poems Composed at the Orchid Pavilion
“cǐ dì yǒu chóngshānjùnlǐng, màolínxiūzhú.” [Pinyin]
Here there are high mountains and lofty peaks; an exuberant growth of trees and bamboos.
[MSC, trad.][▼ expand/hide]
[MSC, simp.]
From: The Art of War, circa 5th century BCE, translation: Lionel Giles, modified
zhī kě yǐ zhàn yǔ bù kě yǐ zhàn zhě shèng [Pinyin]
He will triumph who knows when to fight and when not to fight.
[Classical Chinese, trad.]
[Classical Chinese, simp.]
From: Tao Te Ching, 4th century BCE
huò xī fú zhī suǒ yǐ, fú xī huò zhī suǒ fú [Pinyin]
Misery! - happiness is to be found by its side! Happiness! - misery lurks beneath it!
子曰:「三人行。」 [Classical Chinese, trad.][▼ expand/hide]
子曰:“三人行。” [Classical Chinese, simp.]
From: The Analects of Confucius, circa 475 – 221 BCE, translated based on James Legge's version
Zǐ yuē: “Sān rén xíng, bì yǒu wǒ shī yān. Zé qí shàn zhě ér cóng zhī, qí bù shàn zhě ér gǎi zhī.” [Pinyin]
The Master said, “When I walk along with two others, they may serve me as my teachers. I will select their good qualities and follow them, their bad qualities and avoid them.”
曾子:「可以?」 [Classical Chinese, trad.][▼ expand/hide]
曾子:“可以?” [Classical Chinese, simp.]
From: The Analects of Confucius, circa 475 – 221 BCE, translated based on James Legge's version
Céngzǐ yuē: “Shì bù kěyǐ bù hóng yì, rèn zhòng ér dào yuǎn. Rén yǐ wèi jǐ rèn, bù yì zhòng hū? Sǐ ér hòu yǐ, bù yì yuǎn hū?” [Pinyin]
The philosopher Zeng said, "The officer may not be without breadth of mind and vigorous endurance. His burden is heavy and his course is long. Perfect virtue is the burden which he considers it is his to sustain - is it not heavy? Only with death does his course stop - is it not long?"
子貢終身子曰 [Classical Chinese, trad.][▼ expand/hide]
子贡终身子曰 [Classical Chinese, simp.]
From: The Analects of Confucius, circa 475 – 221 BCE, translated based on James Legge's version
Zǐgòng wèn yuē: yǒu yī yán ér kě yǐ zhōngshēn xíng zhī zhě hū? Zǐ yuē: qí shù hū! Jǐ suǒ bù yù, wù shī yú rén. [Pinyin]
Zi Gong asked, saying, "Is there one word which may serve as a rule of practice for all one's life?" The Master said, "Is not RECIPROCITY such a word? What you do not want done to yourself, do not do to others."
子曰然後松柏 [Classical Chinese, trad.][▼ expand/hide]
子曰然后松柏 [Classical Chinese, simp.]
From: The Analects of Confucius, circa 475 – 221 BCE, translated based on James Legge's version
Zǐyuē: suì hán, ránhòu zhī sōngbǎi zhī hòu diāo yě. [Pinyin]
The Master said, "When the year becomes cold, then we know how the pine and the cypress are the last to lose their leaves."

太陽落山 / 太阳落山  ―  tàiyáng luòshān le  ―  the sun (∅/has/is) set

形天長羊 [Classical Chinese, trad.][▼ expand/hide]
形天长羊 [Classical Chinese, simp.]
From: The Classic of Mountains and Seas
Xíngtiān yǔ dì zhì cǐ (jī gōng zhī guó) zhēng shén, dì duàn qí shǒu, zàng zhī chángyáng zhī shān. Nǎi yǐ rǔ wéi mù, yǐ qí wéi kǒu, cāo gān qī yǐ wǔ. [Pinyin]
When Xingtian fought with the Supreme Deity there (the land of people with odd/uneven upper-arms), the Supreme Deity decapitated him and buried his head at Changyang Mountain. [But Xingtian's] nipples became his eyes, his belly button became his mouth and the thrusting of his shield and battle-axe became his dance.

戀愛 / 恋爱  ―  tān liàn'ài  ―  (please add an English translation of this example)

How to use Wiktionary[edit]

Stroke Order[edit]

Making these GIFs is really time-consuming, so if you have time to spare, you can have a go at it following the instructions at c:Commons:Stroke Order Project/Graphics guidelines/Bitmap animations. — justin(r)leung (t...) | c=› } 13:53, 12 November 2018 (UTC)

How to Mark the Triplicated Characters[edit]

@Geographyinitiative please use {{zh-ref|Triplicated}} so that it can be combined with other Chinese categories and properly sorted. Wyang (talk) 01:55, 7 May 2018 (UTC)

Alternate Characters (异体字) [edit]

Two weeks ago, I added an alternate character to a character's page (), no problem. (see [1]). The result was perfect (looks like this: alt. forms ). Right.

Today I added an alternate character to another page () by the exact same method as above (see [2]). But for some reason, the alternate character appears on the page next to the character itself (looks like this: alt. forms ). Wrong.

请问, how can I get the /旗 out of the alternate character box on the 旗 page???

Thanks for any help! --Geographyinitiative (talk) 09:27, 24 April 2018 (UTC)

The issue has been resolved by User:Dokurrat (see [3]). The answer was to put an asterisk in front of the the alternate Chinese character form (yitizi). --Geographyinitiative (talk) 13:28, 24 April 2018 (UTC)

Wiktionary Tools[edit]



. space between pinyin syllables

^ capitalize the first letter of a pinyin syllable

得-過{guo} no space in the pinyin but Chinese words separated 汉语拼音正词法基本规则6.1.2.1 "动词与后面的动态助词“着”、“了”、“过”,连写。例如:{...}jìnxíngguo (进行过)"

|ts=trad Traditional and Simplified the same

Module:zh/data/wordlist/1, from 教育部重編國語辭典修訂本


Template:Han char

Appendix:Unicode/Ideographic Description Characters

Links & Notes[edit]

Appendix:Gan Swadesh list




Appendix:HSK list of Mandarin words/Advanced Mandarin

Wiktionary:Frequency lists/Korean 5800

Wiktionary:Beer parlour

Wiktionary:Tea room

Appendix:Zhuyin script

Formatting pinyin romanization in example sentences: 挑剔



Wiktionary:Requested entries (Chinese)


Category:Chinese form-of templates

Example of linking to wikispecies for plants & animals[edit]

Brasenia 蒓菜

Searching for a character by the character's components[edit]

@Geographyinitiative: check the setion "consists of" in this link. --Backinstadiums (talk) 20:55, 16 October 2018 (UTC)

A bit crude, but you can try:

Wyang (talk) 21:18, 16 October 2018 (UTC)

@Geographyinitiative: CHISE IDS Find might be better and more comprehensive. —Suzukaze-c 02:59, 18 October 2018 (UTC)

Suppressing Automatic Simplified Character in Variant Forms box[edit]

Problems with the alt. forms box of and Hello- sorry to bother you, but on the 堤 page, right now we see "alt. forms 隄/堤". 堤 obviously shouldn't be in the alt. forms box of 堤. Same with the 绱 in the alt. forms box on the 緔 page. I imagine there is some way to suppress the superfluous 堤 and 绱, but I can't imagine how to do it and I can't think of an analogous page which might give me the information would need to fix the problem. Can you give me any suggestions??? --Geographyinitiative (talk) 12:37, 8 July 2018 (UTC)

@Geographyinitiative Yes, please see my edits there. Wyang (talk) 12:39, 8 July 2018 (UTC)

Adding Breaks in a Quotation[edit]

I need the spacing/breaks to make the example sentence (which is a riddle/joke) I added here really work: . The breaks are there in the pinyin, but they didn't work in the Chinese characters text. Any suggestions??? --Geographyinitiative (talk) 12:31, 21 November 2018 (UTC)

@Geographyinitiative: Use <br>, not <br />. There’s not much reason to use <br /> unless you’re working with XHTML rather than ordinary HTML. — Vorziblix (talk · contribs) 19:58, 21 November 2018 (UTC)

Various issues & notes[edit]

Tone sandhi as written in Bopomofo[edit]

@Wyang, Dokurrat, KevinUp, Tooironic Hello! I would like to point out that the tone sandhi that produces 'qíngbùzìjīn [Phonetic: qíngbúzìjīn]' in the pronunciation box for 情不自禁 should also produce 'ㄑㄧㄥˊ ㄅㄨˋ ㄗˋ ㄐㄧㄣ' [Phonetic: ㄑㄧㄥˊ ㄅㄨˊ ㄗˋ ㄐㄧㄣ]' for Bopomofo. Jianbian Guoyu Cidian does this:'ㄑㄧㄥˊ ㄅㄨˋ ㄗˋ ㄐㄧㄣ (變)ㄑㄧㄥˊ ㄅㄨˊ ㄗˋ ㄐㄧㄣ' (from:[5]) --Geographyinitiative (talk) 14:51, 6 January 2019 (UTC)

@Geographyinitiative: That's probably a good idea, but it's not that easily done. I've put on the list of tasks. — justin(r)leung (t...) | c=› } 17:11, 8 January 2019 (UTC)


@KevinUp Hello! I couldn't find a rare character and I would like to ask if you can find it. I didn't see it here: [6], here: [7], here: [8], or here: [9]. Baidu, jiu haishi buzhidao. The unfindable character in question seems to have the same Cantonese pronunciation as the in 簷蛇 (Jyutping: jim4), but the character is written with a 虫 on the left and with a 嚴 on the right: "⿰虫嚴". The character can be seen in 香港粵語詞典 on page 208, where it is used in the word "⿰虫嚴蛇". Any help would be appreciated! Please let me know if you look for it and can't find it. --Geographyinitiative (talk) 09:49, 8 January 2019 (UTC)

If you can't find it or are not interested, then don't worry about it- I added ⿰虫嚴 to the jim4 page. --Geographyinitiative (talk) 11:20, 8 January 2019 (UTC)
@Geographyinitiative: Wow. You seem to have stumbled upon an extremely rare character. For future reference, there's also [10] which lists soon-to-be encoded characters (Extension G,H,etc), and [11] which lists derived characters under a certain component, and [12], [13], [14] for extremely rare characters used for personal names. I've also looked up 《漢語方言大詞典》 (中華書局, 1999) to check if its a dialectal character. However, all these turned up negative. After googling "⿰虫嚴" with apostrophe marks, I found the character quoted here: [15]
I'm not sure if the meaning above is same as that of "⿰虫嚴蛇". An image of ⿰虫嚴 can be found here: [16] Anyway, today I found this: [17], another site to search for rare characters. Here's another site: [18] (缺字系統), but no definitions are provided. KevinUp (talk) 17:13, 8 January 2019 (UTC)

phono-semantic compound[edit]

(This discussion kept here for future reference)

Looks SoP. — justin(r)leung (t...) | c=› } 23:54, 20 May 2018 (UTC)

I think a "compound" does not necessery mean a character.--Zcreator alt (talk) 08:40, 11 July 2018 (UTC)
1-The term 形声字 is found in 现代汉语规范词典 3rd edition on page 1470. By creating the phono-semantic compound article, I wanted to create the English-language article which corresponded to 形聲字.
2- My broader goal is that all the Chinese-English wiktionary articles which have the words 'Phono-semantic compound' in the Glyph Origin section should have a blue link to the phono-semantic compound article or another similar article. The concept of a 'phono-semantic compound' (or character) is difficult for many people to understand or accept, which makes learning Chinese characters more difficult because those learners don't understand why the right-hand side of the character is there. The written form of Chinese is somewhat inaccessible without understanding this concept, and a blue link invites the readers to find out about it. --Geographyinitiative (talk) 19:51, 21 August 2018 (UTC)
Delete, SOP. Per utramque cavernam 11:09, 18 November 2018 (UTC)
  • I would tentatively say keep, per Zcreator alt's comment. Hypothetically, I could imagine 可口可樂 (phono-semantic matching) or 基佬 (whose first character is a phonetic borrowing from English and whose second character means "guy") being described with a term like "phono-semantic compound", but in fact the term isn't used that way. As far as I know, it's only used for individual characters formed in a very specific way (with a phonetic component and a semantic component). —Granger (talk · contribs) 01:42, 19 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Comment: I'm concerned that this is a neologism created by Geographyinitiative as a translation for the Chinese term, and that it is not currently verifiable. I think it should be sent to RFV to see if it is attestable. If it is attestable, then I think it should be kept as the meaning of the term is not that readily ascertainable from its individual elements. If it is not attestable but it is desirable to create the term for use in Wiktionary, then move it to Appendix:Glossary and indicate clearly that it is a translation of the Chinese term. — SGconlaw (talk) 02:02, 19 November 2018 (UTC)
I agree that if it's not attested or not idiomatic, we can just link to our glossary. A quick check of google books suggests it's not common, but probably meets ATTEST... but the rarity does raise questions about how 'set' the term could be and thus how idiomatic/nonSOP it could really be. Abstain at RFD. (No objection to moving to RFV.) - -sche (discuss) 18:47, 24 November 2018 (UTC)
I've listed it for verification at RFV. — SGconlaw (talk) 16:49, 9 December 2018 (UTC)
Keep, as the RFV discussion has confirmed that the term is verifiable, and as indicated earlier I'm not convinced the term is readily ascertainable from its component words. — SGconlaw (talk) 03:38, 11 December 2018 (UTC)
@Justinrleung, Mx. Granger, Per utramque cavernam, Sgconlaw, -sche, Zcreator alt I would like to mention that did not create this English-language term; I learned it from Template:Han compound. There are many different ways to translate 形聲 and 形聲字, and this is one of those ways. I am not emotionally invested in retaining this page; it should be handled according to Wiktionary policy. --Geographyinitiative (talk) 04:34, 11 December 2018 (UTC)
@KevinUp I was just reading over my comment from way back in ancient history (May 2018), and I realized that I had forgotten that I wanted to add a blue link in the Template:Han compound for phono-semantic compound. Right now, a casual reader of Wiktionary who is looking up a Chinese character's Glyph origin will 九成 be totally unable to decipher the meaning of 'phono-semantic compound'. With a blue link, Han_compound becomes more powerfully informative. Do you know how to add that kind of a blue link into Template:Han compound? Do you think this is a good idea? --Geographyinitiative (talk) 04:48, 11 December 2018 (UTC)
Such a blue link doesn't have to be linked to the phono-semantic compound page itself; it could be linked to an entry in Appendix:Glossary or to the 形聲字 page outright. I have no experience in these matters and don't want to cause even more trouble. --Geographyinitiative (talk) 04:56, 11 December 2018 (UTC)
Thanks for the ping. I've added a blue link to phonosemantic which explains the term adequately. KevinUp (talk) 06:02, 11 December 2018 (UTC)
In my opinion, the word "compound" is misleading and "phonosemantically derived character" can also be another translation of 形聲字形声字 (xíngshēngzì). So the question now is, can we find citations of the term phono-semantic compound that predates April 12, 2005? KevinUp (talk) 06:02, 11 December 2018 (UTC)
I'm not sure if it makes a difference whether the term existed before 2005 or not. If it is now verifiable according to our criteria (in particular, it appears in at least three independent instances spanning at least a year), it means the term is now established. But if editors who work on Chinese entries regularly (I don't) reach consensus that "phonosemantically derived character" is a better translation of the Chinese term, then just add it to Appendix:Glossary (noting in particular that it is a translation of the Chinese term) instead of creating an entry for it. — SGconlaw (talk) 06:13, 11 December 2018 (UTC)
Since the term is well-established by our standards, I think this entry can be kept. See also Template talk:liushu for further discussion. KevinUp (talk) 15:39, 11 December 2018 (UTC)

Unfinished Second Round Simplified Characters (二𫈉字) pages[edit]

The digital form of many second round simplified forms already exists. But in the case of some characters, no digital form of the second round simplified form has been created. There are plans to create digital forms for the second round simplified character forms of the following characters. [21] For the moment, I have added some basic information about the components of the second round simplified form of the following characters based on 第二次汉字简化方案(草案)1977年5月. At some point, the digital form of the following characters' second round simplified form should replace the component information I have provided.


- looks identical to bopomofo symbol

- complex description ⿱⿱十⿵ㄇ丄双 used to represent the character

- extremely complex description ⿱⿻丅⿱冖⿰丶丶双 used to represent the character

Could only be solved with usage notes:

- second round simplification is also the current simplification; added usage notes

- second round simplification is also the commonly-used form; added usage notes

- variant and 2nd round simp.

- ancient and 2nd round simp.

- ancient and 2nd round simp.

蝌蚪 霹靂?

Adding Wade Giles for Multi-syllable entries: Haichou/Hai3-chou1[edit]

Is there any way that we can automatically generate the Wade Giles for two syllable concepts like 海州 or 爱心? I saw ‘aishin’ in an English language book. ∼∼∼∼ Geographyinitiative (talk) 13:56, 12 August 2018 (UTC)

Pinyin Orthography Problems: spaces between all Pinyin syllables in 簡編 and 重編[edit]

These two dictionaries add spaces between all Pinyin syllables with the result that 隔音符號 is useless- see notes on pí'ǎo, hǎi'ōu, zhì'ài & nán'ér. This seems to be caused by the dictionaries mimicking the way that spaces are used in Zhuyin Fuhao.

Component and stroke names work[edit]

夂⻊扌 add gifs of all the 情 stroke orders

Wiktionary-Pleco Integration: The Dream May Become a Reality?[edit]


I left a comment on this term's talk page [22]. In a case like this, do I need to leave a note here, or would you normally see such a comment anyway? Richwarm88 (talk) 23:28, 1 November 2018 (UTC)

@Richwarm88: This was added by User:LlywelynII back in 2013, but yeah... I'd say just change it. :) Wyang (talk) 23:31, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
(a) "added by User:LlywelynII"? Oops! Sorry about that! (b) I was concerned that the word "self-depreciating" might be one of a limited range of valid options for that template. But if it's ok to make it "self-deprecating", I will. (c) By the way, I looked at a few random entries you created recently. I must say I admire your deft definition writing. For example, "squarish face" for 國字臉 is natural and apt, while my "square face" [23] sounds a bit clunky. Richwarm88 (talk) 00:40, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
Ha, thanks! 過獎了. Wait till you see the atrocities that I wrote... Wyang (talk) 00:52, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
Back when you started? That'd be true of anyone who writes definitions. By the way, I guess you know Pleco is planning to offer Wiktionary? Richwarm88 (talk) 01:34, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
Oh, I wasn't aware of it. Haven't used Pleco personally, but lots of people I know use it. That is fantastic news. Wyang (talk) 02:31, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
I get in touch with Pleco occasionally, and recently asked them about Wiktionary. Mike Love told me that they are working on a major revision of their format for their ver. 4.0 of Pleco, and once that's completed, Wiktionary will "definitely" be on their to-do list. In fact, he's talking about maybe also supporting Chinese Wikipedia in its entirety "once we're dealing with their formats anyway". Richwarm88 (talk) 03:15, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
Great, thanks for the information! Wyang (talk) 03:20, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
@Geographyinitiative ;) —Suzukaze-c 03:24, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
I have always believed that if the free version of Pleco gave people a look at the Wiktionary definitions, then it would have a major effect on Wiktionary. Godspeed Mike Love, you are a hero. --Geographyinitiative (talk) 04:09, 2 November 2018 (UTC)

Duoyinzi: To be revisited[edit]


Suzi: To be revisited[edit]

Add my picture of 𣏥

Ideas for Wiktionary 1Pleco-Wiktionary 2 Automatically add words to Compounds section[edit]

1 I asked Mike Love about adding Wiktionary into Pleco somehow, but he didn't respond to that part of my email. If Wiktionary could be added into Pleco somehow, this part of Wiktionary would probably grow it's reader and editor base significantly. It would be a big thing for Chinese language studiers if every person learning or studying Chinese could contribute to Wiktionary via Pleco.

2 Apparently, the "Compounds" box on every character's page requires you to manually add every compound to the list of compounds. (Like this:)



Isn't there a better way to add compounds to the Compounds boxes than to make some user manually add compounds to the relevant character pages? Can't it be set up so that any new word added to Wiktionary that contains a given Chinese character is automatically added to the relevant compound box ?

I hope to become a long-term contributor to Wiktionary. If I have to add every new geographical proper noun to the corresponding component characters' compounds boxes, I'm fine with that. But if it could be done automatically, then why not?

@Geographyinitiative: If the word is in Guoyu Cidian or Hanyu Da Cidian, then they can be added automatically using {{subst:zh-new/der}} (with |big=1 if it's in Hanyu Da Cidian). I'm not aware of any other way of automatically adding to the compounds/derived terms list. Maybe we can have a bot that does this, @Wyang, Suzukaze-c? — justin(r)leung (t...) | c=› } 02:25, 23 April 2018 (UTC)
@Geographyinitiative: BTW, you can bring this to WT:Beer parlour, which is for discussing issues that matter across entries. WT:Tea room is for individual words. — justin(r)leung (t...) | c=› } 02:26, 23 April 2018 (UTC)
@Geographyinitiative: About Pleco, I'm not so sure about that. Wiktionary is constantly updating, so unless Pleco keeps updating with weekly dumps or something, it's gonna be outdated very quickly. Also, editors probably won't be able to edit content on Pleco, which doesn't have that kind of functionality yet AFAIK. — justin(r)leung (t...) | c=› } 02:30, 23 April 2018 (UTC)
This is partially (multisyllables) tracked here: Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:tracking/zh-forms/compounds not mentioned in derived terms on the component pages. I haven't done content parsing with the bot using Pywikipedia before, so I'm not quite sure; a less intelligent method is to extract all the compound and derived info and analyse from those data pages. Another way is a js-based gadget that detects and automatically adds (upon click) the 詞 to its component page(s). Wyang (talk) 02:52, 23 April 2018 (UTC)
@Geographyinitiative:: Hi. It would be great if Pleco included other Chinese lects as well. It only features Mandarin and Cantonese at the moment. Some topolects have a pretty good coverage at Wiktionary now. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 03:00, 23 April 2018 (UTC)


They say you haven't learned something until you can explain it to someone else. All the edits I make are about helping me learn more about Chinese and other topics. I have no credentials to write an encyclopedia or a dictionary, but I am having a lot of fun.

Category:Han phono-semantic compounds

Criteria for inclusion Place names: The following place names should be included as long as they are attested: ... The names of primary administrative divisions (states, provinces, counties, etc). The names of conurbations, cities, towns, villages and hamlets. ...

Ideographic Description Characters-- My opinion: bad naming for a great concept

Do you know any other Category:Triplicated Chinese characters? We have about 80 so far-- also there's (I see it as a triplication) and one with three horses in a row that I can't type in a non-PUA character. Category:Quadruplicated Chinese characters Category:Duplicated Chinese characters

For more info about what I'm doing on Wiktionary and other wikis, please see my user page on Wikipedia.


Problem with the Definitions on the Simplified Entries for Geographical Terms: 瓯海[edit]

Hello again! The page for the simplified version of Ouhai currently looks like this:

For pronunciation and definitions of 瓯海 – see 甌海 (“[[w:Ouhai District”).

This is wrong: it should look like this:

For pronunciation and definitions of 瓯海 – see 甌海 (“Ouhai”).

How can I achieve this result? I don't know where to look or who to ask, and last time I asked at the tea room, it was you who responded anyway. I can't imagine what the code to achieve the correct result would be. Thanks for any help! --Geographyinitiative (talk) 12:06, 27 April 2018 (UTC)

@Geographyinitiative: Technically you can ask at WT:Grease pit, but @Wyang or @Zcreator alt may be able to help. It has to do with this ([^\n}|]+) capture pattern not allowing |, but I don't know a good way to fix it. — justin(r)leung (t...) | c=› } 14:51, 27 April 2018 (UTC)
What about having the replace_gloss function only replace template names like {{place|zh to {{extract-t and creating the helper templates like {{extract-t}} to extract the appropriate parameters? (Hadn't tried this before, though.) --Dine2016 (talk) 15:51, 27 April 2018 (UTC)

Triplicated Chinese Characters: Great Category! also...[edit]

I love the category you made called Category:Triplicated Chinese characters. I added a bunch this morning. Also- I spoke with Chuck Entze about making a Category:zh:Communities for the 社区 of mainland China. I already made the page, but it doesn't automatically collect the new villages I add like Category:zh:Villages does. How can I make it go? --Geographyinitiative (talk) 00:59, 5 May 2018 (UTC)

Thanks. There are also Duplicated and Quadruplicated character categories, if you are interested. With communities, I believe you also have to add it to Module:place/data. Wyang (talk) 04:21, 5 May 2018 (UTC)
I will check out the other categories. I save this information and figure this out later. --Geographyinitiative (talk) 11:59, 5 May 2018 (UTC)
Fixed it. (Templates cannot be invoked in modules either, if their parameters are unknown, AFAIK.) Wyang (talk) 00:39, 28 April 2018 (UTC)
Okay. I will remember that you have to write it like |t=Ouhai --Geographyinitiative (talk) 04:09, 28 April 2018 (UTC)

Toneless final syllable variants (重·次輕詞語) 沒有; etc[edit]

Hello again: I recently added the tl=y to one of the pronunciations of 沒有, meaning that on page 866 of Xiandai Hanyu Cidian Ed 7 (and shiyongben, 5, & 6), 没有 is given the pronunciation méi•yǒu. At the same time, the on the 國語辭典 page, 沒有 is given the pronunciation ㄇㄟˊ ㄧㄡˇ ( Therefore, I split the pronunciations into two- méiyǒu,tl=y 1nb=standard in Mainland and méiyǒu for 2nb=standard in Taiwan. My fear is, this edit looks goofy and very likely will be edited away at some point by someone who sees no difference between méi•yǒu and ㄇㄟˊ ㄧㄡˇ and that other editors (possibly including yourself) will support the change because at first glance, the Pronunciation box on the 沒有 page looks so awkward:


(Pinyin): méiyǒu, méiyǒu

(Zhuyin): ㄇㄟˊ ㄧㄡˇ, ㄇㄟˊ ㄧㄡˇ

Is there anyway to hint to readers that the first méiyǒu may be a little different from the second méiyǒu? What do you think of the whole tl=y situation overall? Also, are there any other specific things that I have done that you are still somewhat dissatisfied with? Thanks. --Geographyinitiative (talk) 01:11, 6 May 2018 (UTC)

@Geographyinitiative: I don't think it's necessary to split it like that. The tl=y is there because it's an optional toneless variant. In the Taiwanese standard, there is no 重次輕 type of thing, and in real life, the Taiwanese rarely use the toneless variant. We can just have |m=méiyǒu,tl=y and that should be fine. — justin(r)leung (t...) | c=› } 01:17, 6 May 2018 (UTC)
Okay, makes sense, I will try to do other similar 重次輕 words I encounter in this way too. --Geographyinitiative (talk) 01:47, 6 May 2018 (UTC)

Thoughts about the Shenyinbiao[edit]

I have added some interesting information for readers, including a reference, about the change in the pronunciation of . If this is good formatting, I will work on doing all the characters in all the 审音表 lists in this manner over the course of the coming months. (Also, I implemented the change you thougt best to the 没有 page. I'm not 100% happy with it, but it's okay by me.) --Geographyinitiative (talk) 04:25, 6 May 2018 (UTC)

It looks good at , but what do you mean by "all the characters in all the 审音表 lists"? I don't think all the characters need this information. Can you give me some examples of the characters that would be treated similarly? — justin(r)leung (t...) | c=› } 05:09, 6 May 2018 (UTC)
Here's an example of one that I just did: . --There were three lists: one in 1957, one in 1959 and one in 1962. In 1985, the three lists were unified and changed slightly. In 2016, a new list based on the 1985 list came out with small changes. --Geographyinitiative (talk) 09:26, 6 May 2018 (UTC)
What was the pronunciation before liǎn? Was it liàn? — justin(r)leung (t...) | c=› } 01:23, 7 May 2018 (UTC)
I can't be certain whether it had a different pronunciation before that list- it's slightly beyond the realm of things I know how to check at this point. --Geographyinitiative (talk) 02:13, 7 May 2018 (UTC)
If we don't know what the pronunciation was, how can we say it "changed"? That's why I was worried about putting this kind of information for every character in all the 审音表 lists. — justin(r)leung (t...) | c=› } 02:25, 7 May 2018 (UTC)
I thought that since Taiwan has lian4 as the reading, it might be interesting to understand some of the underpinnings of the lian3 pronunciation. --Geographyinitiative (talk) 02:28, 7 May 2018 (UTC)
Well, both readings are not unexpected given the two pronunciations given in Guangyun. Taiwan's pronunciation isn't necessarily the "original" reading, so I don't really know why you bring up the Taiwanese reading. Taiwan has its own pronunciation standardization (國語一字多音審訂表), too. — justin(r)leung (t...) | c=› } 02:36, 7 May 2018 (UTC)
Never heard of it! I wish that there were a dictionary that would tell you where the 國語一字多音審訂表 AND the mainland shenyinbiaos carried out shenyin. That's kind of what I'm getting at here. But I understand that adding this info may be seen as clutter or too tangential. --Geographyinitiative (talk) 03:41, 7 May 2018 (UTC)
There's 中華語文大辭典 (aka 兩岸詞典), but sometimes it gets the pronunciations wrong, especially for words with qingsheng. It's nevertheless still useful as a reference. — justin(r)leung (t...) | c=› } 03:47, 7 May 2018 (UTC)
I found that list you mentioned. Very cool. Yeah- I use the 兩岸詞典 dictionary in Pleco. My idea is: let the readers of this dictionary know more about the specifics of the shenyin that has been carried out: let them know about the different shenyin that have been carried out. That would make this dictionary even better than the 兩岸詞典, which just tells you the opinion they have about the difference between the two standards rather than telling you about the shenyin lists. Let readers know about the instances of the shenyin. Could be cool. --Geographyinitiative (talk) 03:59, 7 May 2018 (UTC)
I've removed the entire etymology section at for now. Firstly, it's not really an etymology but a bit of the history of the character's standard pronunciation. However, since these standards are not everything - these pronunciations must have existed before these standards came out. From what I can see, this character's history isn't really all that interesting; it's just that the two ministries of education chose different pronunciations. IMO, I think we probably just need to set up an about page for Mandarin that would list the standards we are basing our labels on. — justin(r)leung (t...) | c=› } 19:11, 7 May 2018 (UTC)
Also, 國語一字多音審訂表(初稿) is not yet official. The current standard is still 國語一字多音審訂表 from ROC 88 (1999). That's why what you wrote was highly misleading. — justin(r)leung (t...) | c=› } 19:13, 7 May 2018 (UTC)
I totally understand your concerns and revert. I apologize about the misleading edits to 敛- at present, I don't understand the subject well enough to make contributions in that area. "IMO, I think we probably just need to set up an about page for Mandarin"--- that would be interesting to me. --Geographyinitiative (talk) 22:22, 7 May 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for adding the derived characters[edit]

The derived characters added to the translingual section may also include characters that were invented outside of China, such as Korean made Hanja 한국제 한자 (han-gukje hanja) 韓國國字, Japanese kokuji 日本國字 and also Vietnamese Nom characters. KevinUp (talk) 09:45, 21 May 2018 (UTC)

Minor Geography[edit]

"Populated, legally recognized places are typically presumed to be notable, even if their population is very low." (WP:GEOLAND) You want me to create entries based on usefulness, but I am creating entries based on notability. If this doesn't satisfy wiktionary's policies of criteria for inclusion, then I will quit making these articles. In my ideal, all the village-level divisions, including 社区, would appear on wikipedia, wiktionary etc. The name of 中南财经政法大学南湖社区 doesn't look as pretty as the two-character names of many other 社区, but I found it in two sources, and it seems reasonable enough. No question that it administers thousands of people. To avoid including 中南财经政法大学南湖社区 is to say that Loving, where there are less than 100 people, is more important than this 社区, where there are thousands of people. The way I see it, all minor geography is minor and could be considered less useful than other work. But in fact, I'm setting down a foundation for a wiki world in which Chinese minor geography is more 完善. I have added some cities too. --Geographyinitiative (talk) 22:13, 27 May 2018 (UTC)

AjaxEdit.js question[edit]

Hello~~ I just saw your edit here: [24]. May I ask, does this mean there's a way to automatically add derived terms and compounds??? --Geographyinitiative (talk) 01:10, 5 July 2018 (UTC)

@Geographyinitiative: Sorry, it's not an automatic way to add derived terms, but a quicker way to edit right on the page without going to the edit page. You can try it out by adding importScript('User:Dixtosa/AjaxEdit.js'); to User:Geographyinitiative/common.js. — justin(r)leung (t...) | c=› } 11:55, 5 July 2018 (UTC)

Bad Pinyin Pages on Wiktionary: How can 九 be on the xiàng page?[edit]

How can 九 be on the xiàng page? The process by which the lists of characters on the pinyin pages which list all the characters with a particular one-syllable pinyin pronunciation were compiled needs to be reviewed. As you have probably noticed, I already have corrected some of these pages. Unfortunately, I haven't detected the pattern behind these errors yet- seems random. It seems like an ugly blemish on Wiktionary. --Geographyinitiative (talk) 22:27, 15 August 2018 (UTC)

I see. Thanks --Geographyinitiative (talk) 12:45, 8 July 2018 (UTC)

Translations of Chinese word components[edit]

Do you know how the translations of the subwords in the chinese zh-forms boxes were generated? Is there code for a bot that I could look at? —This unsigned comment was added by User135711 (talkcontribs).

@‎User135711: According to Template:zh-forms: for single characters, the translations are from Module:zh/data/glosses; for multisyllabic words, the translations are from the entries in the mainspace. --Dine2016 (talk) 02:27, 30 August 2018 (UTC)

Wikipedia has an article on:[edit]

For and a hundred other articles, I added the template zh-wp which links to Chinese wikipedia. Although the content of the 不 article was not really related to the senses of 不 discussed on wiktionary, I thought that 1、不 is inherently related to 不 no matter the content in the articles and 2、"Wikipedia has an article on: 不" was a factual statement. I agree with your reservations and was hesitant to add the link, but for the two reasons stated above, I added it anyway. I'm not really too concerned either way; if you don't like some of the other zh-wp's I added, let me know. I will try to follow whatever established pattern or policy on relevance that we have. Also, let me know what you think of the pics I added. --Geographyinitiative (talk) 13:12, 1 September 2018 (UTC)

It's not related to any of the senses on the page though... If I see a link on Wiktionary saying "Chinese Wikipedia: 不", I might expect something on negative particles, not a South African song. IMO, it looks silly. —Suzukaze-c 00:18, 2 September 2018 (UTC)
The point of the Wikipedia links is to provide a source for encyclopedic information that doesn't belong in a dictionary. If the Wikipedia article doesn't elaborate on what the definitions refer to, it shouldn't be linked to from the entry. Chuck Entz (talk) 03:54, 2 September 2018 (UTC)
I understand your points completely. I agree the link looked silly. I see now that a link to a wikipedia article is only appropriate if the wikipedia article being linked 'elaborates on what the wiktionary definitions refer to'. I will only add these links if there is a connection between the wiktionary definitions and the content of the wikipedia article. --Geographyinitiative (talk) 11:17, 2 September 2018 (UTC)

What was simplified? : 濫|f=臣|t=〢 versus 濫|f=監|t=监[edit]

Concerning [25], I believe that only the part(s) which were simplified should be included in the 'f=|t=' part of '{{Han simp|'. The actual simplification that took place in is exactly identical to the simplification that took place in . 监 is currently written as : 'Han simp|監|f=臣|t=〢' Therefore, I believe 滥 should also be written as '濫|f=臣|t=〢' --Geographyinitiative (talk) 02:13, 5 October 2018 (UTC)

@Geographyinitiative: I think that'd be a surface analysis of the simplification. I don't think 臣 → 〢 happened independently in both characters, but it first was simplified in 監 and was later applied to other characters. — justin(r)leung (t...) | c=› } 03:30, 5 October 2018 (UTC)
@Justinrleung: I agree- it is a surface analysis. But that's what I'm trying to do: I want to tell you exactly what was simplified in this character. I think that if you want to try to inform readers about the patterns behind the 類推 simplification that were involved in making of , it should be written as 濫|f=臣|t=〢, see 监 or 濫|f=臣|t=〢, see 览 or maybe 濫|f=臣|t=〢 see 〢 (if there were an explanation of the 臣-〢 類推 on that page). --Geographyinitiative (talk) 03:42, 5 October 2018 (UTC)
@Geographyinitiative: Surface analyses would not be the "glyph origin" then... it's just pointing out the differences, which the reader can probably do themselves. — justin(r)leung (t...) | c=› } 03:50, 5 October 2018 (UTC)
@Geographyinitiative: Okay, I understand your point here. I looked at a copy of the 1964 简化总表 and 滥 appears under 监 in the 应用第二表所列简化字和简化偏旁得出来的简化字. In the future, when I do simplified forms, I will use this as my guide to tell what was simplified to what. --Geographyinitiative (talk) 04:36, 5 October 2018 (UTC)

Silent Tones in Geographical Terms: 扒頭[edit]

I have often encountered the sentiment that 'place names are never in qingsheng', but I just don't know if it's true. No need to change 扒頭 one way or the other; I just don't believe that 'place names are never in qingsheng' is a proven fact of Mandarin. --Geographyinitiative (talk) 09:16, 13 October 2018 (UTC

structure of 兒化 words[edit]

Hello again! I saw your edit to 反犬旁兒 in which you changed the structure of the word to 'type=112', and I would like to ask: does that mean (by analogy) that a page like 年頭兒 should be changed to 'type=12'? Thanks for your time. --Geographyinitiative (talk) 13:38, 21 December 2018 (UTC)

@Geographyinitiative: I think it should be judged case by case. And sometime it can be hard to judge. I only edit the entries I am sure about. As for this specific page 年頭兒, I don't have an opinion (yet). Dokurrat (talk) 13:41, 21 December 2018 (UTC)
@Geographyinitiative: For example, 天天兒 and 玩意兒 should be type=21, not 12. Dokurrat (talk) 13:43, 21 December 2018 (UTC)
I feel like I can see the difference now. Thanks --Geographyinitiative (talk) 15:21, 21 December 2018 (UTC)