Talk:бахър

Pronunciation with word-final stress

@Bezimenen, Kiril kovachev: I've only ever heard this word pronounced with word-final stress, definitely by speakers in my part of Bulgaria (the seaside). Have you heard it pronounced with word-initial stress?

Thanks,

Chernorizets (talk) 10:20, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

It should be on the ending. Turkish in general has word-final stress and this is a Turkish borrowing. I've added the stress on auto-pilot, sorry about that.

PS I think the word should be uncountable as well, shouldn't it? 2A00:23C7:9C97:8201:B5A8:6704:E013:E36D 12:38, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

Do you know which Turkish word this is supposed to be a borrowing of? I asked several Turkish speakers and nothing came to their minds. As for it being uncountable - not sure, I think we could probably find colloquial plural uses. Chernorizets (talk) 17:11, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

Apparently transferred from a meaning “tinsel” from باقر (bakır, “copper”), so mentioned for Kalmyk by Valentin Rassadin (2007) Очерки по истории сложения тюрко-монгольской языковой общности. This Bulgarian word is weirdly little documented in the past. Fay Freak (talk) 17:28, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

@Chernorizets Thanks for the notification... I distantly remember thinking in the audio recording interface "surely it's pronounced with final stress", but I always check the entry itself to decide what to record it with, so I'll have to re-record this one. Nice catch :-) Kiril kovachev (talk・contribs) 21:26, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

@Kiril kovachev thank you! Chernorizets (talk) 23:49, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

Etymology update

I got a reply from the Institute for Bulgarian Language about the etymology of this word. Here it is, and I've reflected it in the entry. I couldn't find those senses of bağır, but I figured the sense of "chest", "bosom" is consistent with the idea of bracing yourself around the torso to conserve body heat.

Здравейте!

Предполагаме, че съществителното име „бахър“ със значение 'студ' идва от турското bağιr 'стиска, шепа, стяг; прегръдка; (при)свиване в себе си'. Вероятно значението се развива от това, че на студено място, в студено време се свиваме от студ, за да запазим малкото топлина, която тялото отделя, за да ни е топло. В този смисъл „бахър“ би могло да означава освен 'студ' и 'място, на което е студено; място, където се присвиваме от студ; време, когато е студено; време, по което се присвиваме от студ'.

С уважение,

Служба за езикови справки и консултации

Институт за български език – БАН

Chernorizets (talk) 11:18, 26 October 2023 (UTC)