Talk:Ուիքիբառարան
@Hovsepig, if it is written ուի- (ui-), it cannot be pronounced as վի- (vi-). --Vahag (talk) 09:25, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
- @Vahagn Petrosyan: But then the [ui] would be syllabifed as [u.i] into syllables. The digraph ու is pronounced as [v] before an orthographic vowel, like խածուիլ [xadzvil] or օրուան [orvan] or օրուընէ [orvəne]. The only way I've heard this word pronounced Lebanon is either as a non-nativized [wikipedja] or a [vikipedja]. Maybe @Pompyxmori might know if [u.i] is okay because he edits the WA wiki Hovsepig (talk) 09:43, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
- This assumes the word Ուիքիբառարան is written in traditional orthography, but in traditional orthography a word cannot start with ուի- (ui-). --Vahag (talk) 09:48, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
- @Pompyxmori, how do you pronounce this? --Vahag (talk) 08:42, 9 January 2021 (UTC)
- This assumes the word Ուիքիբառարան is written in traditional orthography, but in traditional orthography a word cannot start with ուի- (ui-). --Vahag (talk) 09:48, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
- @Vahagn Petrosyan: But then the [ui] would be syllabifed as [u.i] into syllables. The digraph ու is pronounced as [v] before an orthographic vowel, like խածուիլ [xadzvil] or օրուան [orvan] or օրուընէ [orvəne]. The only way I've heard this word pronounced Lebanon is either as a non-nativized [wikipedja] or a [vikipedja]. Maybe @Pompyxmori might know if [u.i] is okay because he edits the WA wiki Hovsepig (talk) 09:43, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
@Vahagn Petrosyan, Hovsepig So, I admit it's a tricky one. In this case, I alternate between [wikʰipʰɑɾɑˈɾɑn] and [vikʰipʰɑɾɑˈɾɑn]. More and more Western Armenian speakers are becoming familiar with the [w] phoneme in foreign names such as Ուիլիըմ Սարոյեան, Ուաշինկթըն, and Ուաթըրթաուն (Ամերիկայի մէջ հայաշատ քաղաք մը)։ Best to include the [w] variation first, followed by the [v] variation as an accepted alternative. Pompyxmori (talk) 12:49, 9 January 2021 (UTC)
- @Pompyxmori, Hovsepig /w/ does not exist in Standard Western Armenian. Sakapetoyan transcribes Ուաշինկթըն as Վաշինգթըն. With Hovsepig's help I have removed all foreign phonemes from Standard Eastern Armenian. I prefer not to document the foreign influence for now. --Vahag (talk) 13:43, 9 January 2021 (UTC)։
@Vahagn Petrosyan, Hovsepig I respect your choice. However, /w/ does exist to some degree in the Western Armenian of the twenty-first century. The best way to find out is not to consult a dictionary, but in theory to conduct a psycholinguistic study. A dictionary is only one author's choice, it's a prescriptive task in itself, however there are more descriptive-based ones out there, like Wiktionary; in addition, in the foreword, the author barely if not doesn't mention at all his methodological approach to collecting data. Pompyxmori (talk) 14:46, 9 January 2021 (UTC)
- Yeah the Sakabedoyan work doesn't seem very accurate for a lot of things. Western Armenian regularly epenthesizes a schwa between a CC cluster and the passive suffix այրըվիլ but he doesn't document that. So sigh...
- Though for this entry, I think the safest option is to say [v] is the prescriptive Standard form while [w] is the colloquial form that everybody uses in real if they know a language that has a [w] (which is most WA speakers) Hovsepig (talk) 00:00, 10 January 2021 (UTC)