Talk:օրհնյալ

@Vahagn Petrosyan stress marker breaks up [nj] :/ Hovsepig (talk) 21:04, 3 January 2021 (UTC)

@Hovsepig: I was taught in school that [Cj] can syllabify both as [C.j] and as [.Cj], i.e. both ու-թյուն and ութ-յուն are correct. --Vahag (talk) 21:26, 3 January 2021 (UTC)

@Vahagn Petrosyan: same for me. But in this word, we end up seeing a non-realistic complex coda [orhn.jal] Hovsepig (talk) 21:29, 3 January 2021 (UTC)

We need more detailed syllabification rules before we can encode them. I suggest to leave this issue before you or me learn those rules. --Vahag (talk) 21:40, 3 January 2021 (UTC)

@Vahagn Petrosyan: Well in the case of this word, there's no actual [h] in the surface in WA, so the actual form is [ornjal]. As for syllabification, the maximal syllable in Armenian is CjVCC(ք) (Vaux 1998: 21ff). VCjV can be syllabified freely as either [V.CjV] or [VC.jV], while VCCjV can be syllabified as [VC.CjV] or optionally as [VCC.jV] if the CC can form a complex coda. If CC can't form a complex coda, then the only possible syllabifications are [VC.CjV], such as վեցամսյայ թավշյայ բաղադրյալ մեղադրյալ հերակլյան. Larger VCCCjV clusters can only be syllabifed as [VCC.CjV] such as ոսպնյակ հարսնյակ երդվյալ.

However, the suffix յալ եալ + յան եան can vary among dialects in how often it forms a Cj complex conset. For WA, the prefernce is [VX.եալ] unless X includes an impossible complex coda

For the script, you could specify that a CjV sequence is by default treated as part of the syllable. If an entry has a syllable boundary '.' between Cj then they're broken.

In general, syllabification in Armenian is pretty straightforward if the schwas are already present in the string. I'm currently doing a separate research paper on it. I can later test it on Wiktionary's entries and perhaps incorporate it into hy-pron. Hovsepig (talk) 02:23, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

This is too complex for me to code and I assume @Erutuon is too busy for it. We can add the stress mark manually. Erutuon, can you add a simple rule to Module:hy-pronunciation about omitting the last step of adding a stress mark if the word contains the <ˈ> symbol? --Vahag (talk) 09:44, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

@Vahagn Petrosyan: That's a good cheat, more efficient than mine :D Hovsepig (talk) 09:55, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

@Vahagn Petrosyan in EA, is the [h] pronounced at all? It's not pronounced in WA after a rhotic. Hovsepig (talk) 02:24, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

Yes, it is pronounced in standard speech. Dialectically, it is replaced with a թ in this word. --Vahag (talk) 09:44, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

@Vahagn Petrosyan: colloquial WA uses a [t] too. I can't physically say a [rh] coda (and I can't even hear it). But Hagopian 2007 and Sakayan 2000 both transcribe this root with [orhn], so I'm gonna err on the side of caution and retranscribe this root with [orhn], and add the [t] version as a colloquial form Hovsepig (talk) 09:55, 4 January 2021 (UTC)