Talk:henek
Latest comment: 5 years ago by Vahagn Petrosyan
@Calak, do you know the etymology of this word? --Vahag (talk) 18:25, 16 December 2018 (UTC)
- It should be a loanword form Arabic(حَنَك (ḥanak)) with original meaning "anecdote". @Fay Freak Do you know anything about this Arabic word?--Calak (talk) 12:44, 22 December 2018 (UTC)
- @Calak It makes sense, but “anecdote” is not a meaning known in the written language, it means originally and still “palate”, and from this the sense of “wisdom” has developed in the root ح ن ك (ḥ-n-k) (but not in this word حَنَك (ḥanak), as concerns the Fuṣḥā) over the idea of horse becoming trained via being pulled at its palate. And so the root easily has spawned a meaning “anecdote” as this is what life-trained, experienced men tell, maybe while showing their palate for laughing. Fay Freak (talk) 21:04, 22 December 2018 (UTC)
- @Fay Freak How about Arabic حَنَكَة (ḥanaka)? English translation is "Humorous", close to Kurdish meaning.--Calak (talk) 07:55, 23 December 2018 (UTC)
- @Calak This cannot be an adjective. It is not a pattern for adjectives, and with the ة ending it cannot be a citation form of an adjective even if vocalized differently. Fay Freak (talk) 13:40, 23 December 2018 (UTC)
- @Fay Freak: Thank you. do we have similar thing in Aramaic?--Calak (talk) 15:41, 23 December 2018 (UTC)
- @Calak: You see in the CAL what there has been. I don’t know what the modern dialects have, neither the Arabic nor the Aramaic dialects. Fay Freak (talk) 15:44, 23 December 2018 (UTC)
- @Fay Freak: Thank you. do we have similar thing in Aramaic?--Calak (talk) 15:41, 23 December 2018 (UTC)
- @Calak This cannot be an adjective. It is not a pattern for adjectives, and with the ة ending it cannot be a citation form of an adjective even if vocalized differently. Fay Freak (talk) 13:40, 23 December 2018 (UTC)
- @Fay Freak How about Arabic حَنَكَة (ḥanaka)? English translation is "Humorous", close to Kurdish meaning.--Calak (talk) 07:55, 23 December 2018 (UTC)
- @Calak It makes sense, but “anecdote” is not a meaning known in the written language, it means originally and still “palate”, and from this the sense of “wisdom” has developed in the root ح ن ك (ḥ-n-k) (but not in this word حَنَك (ḥanak), as concerns the Fuṣḥā) over the idea of horse becoming trained via being pulled at its palate. And so the root easily has spawned a meaning “anecdote” as this is what life-trained, experienced men tell, maybe while showing their palate for laughing. Fay Freak (talk) 21:04, 22 December 2018 (UTC)
@Vahag: I found same thing in Azerbaijani hənək [1] and Turkmen henek [2].--Calak (talk) 13:09, 29 December 2018 (UTC)
- @Calak: apparently also in a bunch of dialects of Turkish. Dankoff also adduces Old Armenian հենգ(ն) (heng(n), “jeer, taunt”). Since the word is present in Armenian dialects which are not influenced by Kurdish, such as Tiflis and Karabakh, I don't think the Kurdish is the source for Armenian. I wonder what is the interrelationship of all these forms. --Vahag (talk) 15:34, 29 December 2018 (UTC)
- @Calak, Fay Freak, I found the solution in Tietze, Andreas (2009) “henek”, in Tarihi ve Etimolojik Türkiye Türkçesi Lügati (in Turkish), volume II, Vienna: Österreichische Akademie der Wissenschaften, page 250a. The ultimate origin is Arabic حَنَك (ḥanak, “jawbone”), whence ‘gab, chitchat, chinwag’ (Turkish and Kurdish have this meaning) and ‘anecdote’. For the sense development compare Turkish çene (“jawbone; gab, chitchat, chinwag”). --Vahag (talk) 15:54, 29 December 2018 (UTC)