Talk:nudge nudge wink wink
This phrase seems to need at least one source. 18.104.22.168 19:46, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
I think it was derived from a Monty Python sketch, unless there is an earlier usage.
- Been around a little longer than that sketch. some examples. Conrad.Irwin 14:40, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
Changed pronunciation as best as possible to reflect the fact that this phrase consists of two two-syllable intonation units in sequence with the nucleus on the second syllable in both cases. Used to be known as level stress; what was given could only be interpreted as forestress. BadenBrit 06.08.2017.
- @BadenBrit: that seems a bit strange. Do people really emphasize the second and the fourth word? — SGconlaw (talk) 14:28, 6 August 2017 (UTC)
- @Sgconlaw : It has nothing to do with 'emphasis', but with the stress/accent pattern. What was given, and has now unfortunately been restored, is: NUDGE nudge WINK wink, with bold caps indicating primary stress/accent and caps secondary stress/accent. This bears no relation to the best known, frequently recorded manifestation of the expression, viz. Monty Python (various episodes), which clearly has two intonation units of two syllables each, the first syllable in either case being, technically, the 'onset', the second the 'nucleus/tonic'. This could be represented, semi-iconically: NUDGE NUDGE | WINK WINK. We do not perceive the nucleus as being emphasized, merely as carrying the significant pitch movement of the intonation unit; if it were emphasized, we would have 'contrastive stress', which is perceived as a much wider pitch movement. The system adopted in marking up pronunciation in Wiktionary does not allow for intonation units, since most lexical items, as opposed to phrases, constitute one single intonation unit. (Compare a phrase like: the 'more, the 'merrier -- two intonation units -- with 'supercalifragilisticexpialidocious' -- far more syllables but within a single intonation unit, marked up under Wikipedia as /ˌsuːpərˌkælɪˌfrædʒɪˌlɪstɪkˌɛkspiˌælɪˈdoʊʃəs/ (US version), the nucleus being on the penultimate syllable, a primary stress/accent, all other accents marked as secondary. My correction conformed to a pattern for each intonation unit marked up as: secondary - primary, the best that can be done within the Wiktionary system and in conformity with recent standard pronouncing dictionaries such as J.C. Wells Longman Pronunciation Dictionary, 3rd edition, 2008 or Daniel Jones English Pronouncing Dictionary, 18th edition, 2011.
- Whoever was responsible for the pronunciation mark-up, would do well to perform a lateral online shift to the Wikipedia entries for English stress alias accent patterns. (Note: the reason I have used 'stress/accent' is because terminology is by no means settled: a differentiation, which I myself would adhere to, is that a given syllable inherently has or does not have an accent, while a stress may be placed upon a syllable because of its position in an intonation unit or because of its informational salience in discourse.) BadenBrit 05.09.2017.