Talk:this morning
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The following information passed a request for deletion.
This discussion is no longer live and is left here as an archive. Please do not modify this conversation, but feel free to discuss its conclusions.
These seem to be instances of the form [determiner] + [temporal noun] = adverbial phrase. Why have it? Can't translators live with black links? DCDuring TALK 16:42, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
- ...or links like "this morning"?—msh210℠ 16:54, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
- Thanks. That's what I should have said. DCDuring TALK 17:18, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
Delete; I think the "sum of parts" argument is overused, but in this case it's about right. Putting "this" in front of any old noun, even a temporal one, does not make a new "adverb". Mglovesfun (talk) 18:01, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
- Thanks. That's what I should have said. DCDuring TALK 17:18, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
- Imo we can't delete this without adding the relevant sense s.v. [[this]]. I'm not sure what that would be: "of the present day"?—msh210℠ 16:05, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
- Don't we have a sense like "near"? Whether the meaning is "the preceding morning" "the morning about to or now occurring", it is a proximate one. The transfer from space to time seems to work for lots of words (like prepositions). Alternatively, how many of "this + [time word]" expressions would you like to include: this epoch? this Brumaire? I could understand a phrasebook inclusion rationale, though I have never understood the limits of this nor that there was much indication that it is used. DCDuring TALK 17:04, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
- (If that was addressed to me specifically, then please note that I never said I think this should be kept, and I don't. I merely think we should add to [[this]].) True, this evening can I think mean "the preceding evening": "He helped me fix my car this evening", spoken in the morning, I think is fine in some dialects, though not in mine. (Do those BYU corpora allow for searching by presence in a clause containing a verb in a specific tense?) To me, it means "this coming or present evening". Certainly we have a "near" sense: "The (thing) here (used in indicating something or someone nearby)". But I think we should have a separate sense for this, as it's temporal rather than spatial: I was even looking for it there and didn't find it! (Of course, I may be dumber than the average reader.)—msh210℠ 17:30, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
- I wasn't sure what you were suggesting. Yes, I agree. At first I thought that it was always "the next", then I thought "nearest", but it defines something more like what you say. The contrastive phrases like "this coming month" and "this past month" indicate some of the ambiguity in how "this month" is used around the "turn of the month".
- (If that was addressed to me specifically, then please note that I never said I think this should be kept, and I don't. I merely think we should add to [[this]].) True, this evening can I think mean "the preceding evening": "He helped me fix my car this evening", spoken in the morning, I think is fine in some dialects, though not in mine. (Do those BYU corpora allow for searching by presence in a clause containing a verb in a specific tense?) To me, it means "this coming or present evening". Certainly we have a "near" sense: "The (thing) here (used in indicating something or someone nearby)". But I think we should have a separate sense for this, as it's temporal rather than spatial: I was even looking for it there and didn't find it! (Of course, I may be dumber than the average reader.)—msh210℠ 17:30, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
- Don't we have a sense like "near"? Whether the meaning is "the preceding morning" "the morning about to or now occurring", it is a proximate one. The transfer from space to time seems to work for lots of words (like prepositions). Alternatively, how many of "this + [time word]" expressions would you like to include: this epoch? this Brumaire? I could understand a phrasebook inclusion rationale, though I have never understood the limits of this nor that there was much indication that it is used. DCDuring TALK 17:04, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
- Keep, idiomatic and potentially difficult to translate. Ƿidsiþ 16:13, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
- On reflection recategorize as phrasebook only, while it's not idiomatic, it's a very common English construction, plus nobody really says this night they just say tonight, but never tomorning or toevening. Mglovesfun (talk) 10:42, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
- Any comments? Mglovesfun (talk) 14:12, 14 October 2009 (UTC)
- On reflection recategorize as phrasebook only, while it's not idiomatic, it's a very common English construction, plus nobody really says this night they just say tonight, but never tomorning or toevening. Mglovesfun (talk) 10:42, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
- Seems reasonable. -- Visviva 15:05, 14 October 2009 (UTC)
- Good resolution for now. DCDuring TALK 17:59, 14 October 2009 (UTC)
Phrasebookified Mglovesfun (talk) 14:18, 16 October 2009 (UTC)