User talk:Tooironic/xìngshì
Proposal for pinyin entries
[edit]This is the kind of formatting I'd like to see for pinyin entries on Wiktionary, though of course I need someone to standardise and prettify it for me. I think soft-redirects are the best option because it means that we don't have to triple the amount of work for us by having to maintain both the pinyin and (simplified and traditional) hanzi entries. It also allows the user to see a full list of all possible readings of one pinyin word, which I think is quite useful. I also know that Japanese romaji has a similar formatting policy. Everyone please submit their critique here. I'd like to put this to the community very soon. Cheers. ---> Tooironic 13:17, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
- Would you allow toneless pinyin? E.g. jiaozi can be jiǎozi 餃子/饺子 or jiàozi 轎子/轿子. Do you think we should keep jiaozi (Mandarin) or redirect to jiǎozi or jiàozi and each would have their own lists? --Anatoli 13:28, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
- No toneless pinyin (for Mandarin - of course keep attested English pinyin entries). Even a simple pinyin reading like jiaozi has (at least) 14 readings according to Wenlin: (!)
- jiāozi 交子
- jiāozi 焦子
- jiāozī 骄姿
- jiāozǐ 骄子
- jiāozì 骄恣
- jiáozi 嚼子
- jiǎozi 饺子
- jiǎozi 角子
- jiǎozi 绞子
- jiàozi 轿子
- jiàozi 酵子
- jiàozi 叫子
- jiàozi 窖子
- jiàozǐ 教子
- I think maintaining toneless pinyin entries is silly because they're not actually words and we shouldn't be misleading people that they are. In real life, if you pronunced any of these readings merely as jiaozi, good luck someone trying to understand you. Even if you could somehow guarantee that all toneless pinyin entries included every possible tone combination that would still not be enough as incorrectly spelt and non-standard formatting is rife. So potentially jiaozi or jiao zi could be read in the middle of a sentence as (你会让他)叫自(己姐姐或哥哥吗)？ or 教资(会主席史美伦昨表示) etc. Some sources don't even delimit words with spaces - how are we supposed to handle that? And let's not even go into the thousands of possible combinations for Chinese names. In short, let's stick to real words with the right spelling and that can be easily attested. This will save us a lot of stuffing around and increase our efficiency in the long run. ---> Tooironic 23:08, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
- This is what I said yesterday too, just wanted to see what you want to write in the proposal. Wiktionary:Beer_parlour#block_list. User:Internoob posted a reply there, reminding of this vote and the usage of
{{nonstandard spelling of}}. The vote didn't completely ban toneless pinyin, as you see. Do you wish to address this? --Anatoli 23:19, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
- This is what I said yesterday too, just wanted to see what you want to write in the proposal. Wiktionary:Beer_parlour#block_list. User:Internoob posted a reply there, reminding of this vote and the usage of
- Those are syllables, not words. I don't mind toneless syllables being covered as there are a limited amount. But not word combinations as the amount of possible entries is absolutely infinite. ---> Tooironic 00:27, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
- Yes, it makes sense. Do you suggest a new vote? Not sure it covered separate syllables only or whole words. I posted in too many places now re this issue - here (see below), my talk page and BP. Please answer in BP. --Anatoli 00:34, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
Please check these entries, Carl. I have converted abc123's entry into {{nonstandard spelling of|Àozhōurén|lang=cmn}}, added a comment in WT:BP--Anatoli 00:25, 25 May 2010 (UTC)