Talk:שלימזל

Are "unlucky person" and "clumsy person" actually two separate senses in this word? Isn't it -- I don't really speak Yiddish, of course -- kind of both at the same time: someone who can't get anything right and for whom nothing turns out right?

Besides, I wanted to transcribe and translate the example sentence:

Er iz a poet, a dramaturg, a kompozitor, a nishkoshediker zinger – un fort in der zelber tsayt a nebekhdiker shlimazl, azoy vi Traynstmans [?] held.

He’s a poet, a dramaturge, a compositor, a decent singer – and then at the same time a miserable unlucky/clumsy fellow, like Traynstman’s [?] hero.

Who's "Traynstman" (if that's a name)? Can't find anything on the web... Is the rest correct?

Kolmiel (talk) 14:15, 15 September 2016 (UTC)

Looking back at the source, טרײַנסטמאַן is a typo for ישׂראל טרײַסטמאַן, who is mentioned earlier with the correct spelling. Must be this guy. Can't find anything about him in English. --WikiTiki89 15:12, 15 September 2016 (UTC)

I found that in English his name is spelled Israel Treistman. --WikiTiki89 15:26, 15 September 2016 (UTC)

@Kolmiel: Also, I added your translation, with a few modifications (dramaturg → playwright, kompozitor → composer, nishkoshedik → not-so-bad, held → protagonist). One thing I'm not sure about is whether to translate the typo (Treinstman) or to fix it (Treistman). --WikiTiki89 15:33, 15 September 2016 (UTC)

Thank you. I don't know either about the last bit. Kolmiel (talk) 12:15, 16 September 2016 (UTC)

Is "playwright" correct for dramaturg? The German "Dramaturg" is defined by Duden as "literatur- und theaterwissenschaftlicher Berater bei Theater, Funk oder Fernsehen." (adviser with respect to literary and theatre studies in theatre, radio or television [productions]). Kolmiel (talk) 12:21, 16 September 2016 (UTC)

I think Yiddish takes after the Russian here. The first sentence at w:yi:וויליאם שייקספיר says: וויליאם שייקספיר (...) איז געווען איינער פון די גרעסטע דראמאטורגן און דיכטער אין דער מעריבדיקער קולטור. --WikiTiki89 13:02, 16 September 2016 (UTC)

Wikitiki's right about the meaning, though I didn't know it was a Slavicism. —Μετάknowledge^{discuss/deeds} 17:37, 16 September 2016 (UTC)

Okay. Thanks again. Kolmiel (talk) 21:16, 16 September 2016 (UTC)

It doesn't even have to be a Slavicism, as the cognate means "playwright" in several other languages too. It could be a Kulturwort that generally means "playwright" with a specific meaning shift in German and a few other languages. Lingo Bingo Dingo (talk) 13:02, 18 September 2016 (UTC)

I wouldn't call it Slavicism, but an influence of Russian academic/intellectual culture rather than the Russian language. There's nothing Slavic about this word or sense anyway. --WikiTiki89 13:08, 18 September 2016 (UTC)