Talk:ananas

RFV discussion: March–May 2017

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ananas

Any evidence of this in Latin? —JohnC5 04:34, 16 March 2017 (UTC)

There are species Fusarium ananatum and Salmonella ananatum. There's also one hit for "ananatibus" in a modern work (Classical Folia). DTLHS (talk) 04:54, 16 March 2017 (UTC)

All three google book results for "Fusarium ananatum" and the one result for "Salmonella ananatum" were in English, which does not attest a Latin term.
Indeed, there was one result with ananatibus, this one (from 1966 according to google) with this snippet: "... malis, bananis; campi qui ananatibus pleni sunt; pomaria quae tam lata et magna sunt quam hoc oppidum.'".
Before the 20th century one can find "Ananas" in Latin works too, especially in biological works. But one can also find "De Ananas" and "cum Anana sylvestri" (both from the biological text Historia plantarum by the Englishman John Ray), as well as "Ananas siluestres" besides "Ananas siluestris" (from the biological text Universalis plantarum historiae) in Latin. So there could be more inflections: ananas, indecl.; ananas, ae - first declension; ananas, atis - third declension. But well, the attestation of other inflections is not the matter of a RFV for one inflection. -84.161.27.3 15:04, 16 March 2017 (UTC)

I can't find any more evidence for the third declension paradigm, though its use in scientific nomenclature probably deserves a usage note in the entry once actually attested declensions are added. But the RFV is for the term as a whole, so this is evidence enough to pass it; we simply need to figure out how to treat it. —Μετάknowledge^{discuss/deeds} 06:21, 17 March 2017 (UTC)

RFV-passed on the basis of the citations above, but I've commented out the declension table until we can figure out what declension the word actually had. - -sche (discuss) 19:43, 30 April 2017 (UTC)

The entry now has four citations (and with ananatibus above there is a fifth), so the word itself is attested. By the cites it seems as it's originally indeclinable, at least in the singular, and later became a first declension noun (and with ananatibus above a third declension noun). From a Greek-Latin point of view, a first declension ananas should be masculine (which Modern Greek ανανάς m (ananás) and translingual-taxonomic Ananas m are). In NL it could feminine anyway, but maybe there should be a note like "the attested feminine gender could belong to the indeclinable noun only while the first-declension declinable noun could be masculine (compare the Greek first declension)"?
Was the meaning "pineapple" correct? It is said that English pineapple - at least now - is translingual-taxonomic Ananas comosus, while there are other Ananas. German Ananas could have an older wider sense (maybe similar to translingual-taxonomic Ananas) and a younger narrower sense (similar to pineapple and Ananas comosus, and similar to German "eßbare Ananas", "wahre oder eßbare Ananas", "gemeine Ananas", "gemeine Ananas, wahre oder eigentliche Ananas" etc. which is translingual-taxonomic "Bromelia Ananas" or "Bromelia ananas" or "Ananassa sativa" which is pineapple in English). By the time, Latin ananas could have a broader sense like Ananas. Similary English ananas could have another meaning or two meanings. At dictionary.com/browse/ananas?s=t it is "the pineapple or a related tropical American bromeliaceous plant [...]" which is more than just pineapple. -84.161.56.213 23:38, 31 May 2017 (UTC)