Talk:ruisseller

RFD discussion: August–September 2015

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ruisseller

Should be an erroneous form of ruisseler. --kc_kennylau (talk) 05:32, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

• Keep. Seems attested, e.g. in here[1]. (ruisseller*500),ruisseler at Google Ngram Viewer suggests a common misspelling to me; compare e.g. (beleive*2000), believe at Google Ngram Viewer. Calibration containing data is at User_talk:Dan_Polansky/2013#What_is_a_misspelling; the best frequency ratio at GBC was 100 for condensor vs. condenser; the other best frequency ratios of misspellings were 341, 433, 441, and 561. Regulation: WT:CFI#Spellings. --Dan Polansky (talk) 09:21, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

• This doesn't seem to be an erroneous form / misspelling; it seems to be an intentional (nonstandard) alternative spelling. As evidence of this, google books:"ruisseller" gets 319 hits and google books:"ruisseler" gets ~600, but google books:"ruisseller" "ruisseler" gets only 3 — if "ruisseller" were an error, I would expect more (not all, but certainly more than 0.009%) of the books that used it to also use the correct spelling. Perhaps someone can show that the situation is different if inflected forms are included. Furthermore, of the three books are use both spellings, one is a dictionary, the 1830 Dictionnaire des dictionnaires, pour apprendre plus facilement, which gives in its list of -eller verbs "ruisseller ou ruisseler, v. rueller (la vigne)." Immediately after that list of -eller verbs, it has a list of -eler verbs, but it chooses to lemmatize ruissel(l)er as an -eller verb. Another of the three hits is the 1902 Godefroy Dictionnaire de l'ancienne langue française et de tous ses dialectes du IXe au XVe siècle, which has a citation of "ruisseller" from w:fr:Jean d'Auton, suggesting that the spelling is of quite long standing. So, keep but convert into an alt-form-of entry with a "nonstandard" tag. - -sche (discuss) 21:27, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

• • @-sche How is it conjugated then? --kc_kennylau (talk) 08:41, 23 August 2015 (UTC)
    • According to the Dictionnaire des dictionnaires, like other -eller verbs — quereller, for example. - -sche (discuss) 01:48, 24 August 2015 (UTC)
      • Without any difficulty I found 3 citations from before 1800, making me think this is an archaic form, but not an alternative, because in 21st century French, it's a spelling mistake. Renard Migrant (talk) 16:18, 24 August 2015 (UTC)
        • From 1900 to 2014 ruisseller gets 39 hits, some of those are not in running text and some quote older, such as 2007 "Nous vivons dans les eaux lors que nous pouvons fendre Le rocher de nos coeurs pour faire ruisseller Une source de pleurs à fin de consoler Nostre exil prolongé que Dieu nous faict attendre." Note 'coeurs', 'nostre' and 'faict' which are not 20th century spellings. Renard Migrant (talk) 16:26, 24 August 2015 (UTC)
          • @-sche I hope you're ok with my changes. Renard Migrant (talk) 16:32, 24 August 2015 (UTC)
            • I think just 'archaic form' covers even the modern uses, which are you noted are apparently either quotations of older works, or using other archaic spellings. Other than that I think it looks good now. ({{lb|fr|archaic|now|nonstandard}} {{alternative form of| might also work.) - -sche (discuss) 16:58, 24 August 2015 (UTC)

Resolved: modified and kept. - -sche (discuss) 00:35, 30 September 2015 (UTC)