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I've added too many to the discussion.—msh210℠ 20:03, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
- Delete. Consider also too few, too little, too purple, too wise, and so on. (That some of these are determiners and the others adjectives is a distinction without a difference AFAICT.)—msh210℠ 20:07, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
- Comment. These do seem to be SOP (unlike most determiners, much/many/little/few can be modified by very many adverbs; contrast *too several, *too a lot (of)/*a too lot (of)), but on the other hand, we are also a translating dictionary, and some things do need to be in translating dictionaries. I'm guessing there is at least one other language that expresses this concept in some similar way (maybe Scots? maybe Old English, or at least Middle English? maybe one of the constructed languages?), but for most of the world's languages, how would you figure out how to express this if not by looking it up? (For a number of languages — at least French, Spanish, and Hebrew — I suppose you could find the translation of too, then serendipitously discover from our entry that the same word also means “too much” and “too many”; but that's not exactly a strategy.) —RuakhTALK 02:52, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
- It's time for the leadership here to change CFI. CFI says this ought be deleted. The translating dictionary argument might be compelling, but the argument needs to be made and the criteria need to be operationalized so as not to waste time, effort, and ,most of all, enthusiasm. One can't sit back and get others to do the bull work without direction unless one is willing to accept the consequences. To have "rules" that are whimsically and time-consumingly overridden is silly. If we actually have a lot of expertise on tap, then it needs to apply itself to organizing the work to be done. If it isn't interested in the English part of wiktionary then perhaps we need an About English section to more efficiently address the issues as they arise. DCDuring TALK 03:55, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
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Adverb and noun PoS definitions are both SoP, (not adjective or "interjection"):
- You talk too much.
- You ate too much cake at the party, and that's why you feel sick.
- A quantity which is excessive to the point of being inappropriate, harmful, or overwhelming.
- You expect too much from your employees.
The second usage example in the adverb case does not even show adverbial usage, but rather conventional determiner usage, illustrating lack of thought in the PoS section.
For both PoSes the term is SoP. too (“excessively”) serves as an intensifier. much#Adverb has the senses "too a great extent" and "often". The omission of the "excessively often" sense is a further illustration of the poor quality of thought in the entry.
- Keep. Too much corresponds to too in a paradigm shown below:
English French verb + too much verb + trop too + adjective trop + adjective too + adverb trop + adverb verb + excessively verb + excessivement excessively + adjective excessivement + adjective excessively + adverb excessivement + adverb verb + a little verb + un peu a little + adjective un peu + adjective a little + adverb un peu + adverb
- Here much has no additional meaning. And you usually don’t say just much but very much in an affirmative phrase. — TAKASUGI Shinji (talk) 16:49, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
- Keep.Matthias Buchmeier (talk) 23:50, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
- The example sentences all sound a bit odd without the "too," leading me to suspect that there must be something special about "too much"? Furius (talk) 00:42, 6 February 2013 (UTC)
- Especially for this reason, keep. DAVilla 04:59, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
- You're right about the adverb example, I think.
- The "noun" usex seems OK to me, certainly more formal and much less common than a lot. I'm open to the possibility that there is some evidence that shows too much to be common in cases where much alone does not occur, either a class of verbs or a following phrase. DCDuring TALK 01:22, 6 February 2013 (UTC)
- Keep. It's idiomatic, and while it's almost a SoP, it isn't quite. This, that and the other (talk) 00:16, 7 February 2013 (UTC)