Talk:verbal

Unverified information from the entry

1. a verbal statement, especially a damaging admission, alleged to have been made by a suspect, and given in evidence at a trial

   The Police Integrity Commission released details last week that Police officers "routinely planted evidence and verbaled statements to gain convictions." (Australian newsgroup, 2002)

   Ironically, Rogerson now admits that in one of his most famous cases, the Whiskey Au Go Go firebombing, one of the two men convicted, James Finch, was verbaled by detectives. (TIME. December 28, 1992 The Torrid Tale of a Rogue Cop)

2. (slang) (usually in the plural, preceded by to give) verbal abuse, grief, nagging

   Fred gave the ref serious verbals over that penalty.

Verb

to verbal (third-person singular simple present verbals, present participle verbaling, simple past verbaled, past participle verbaled)

1. (transitive) To attribute a damaging statement to a suspect
2. (transitive) To fabricate a confession

   The Police Integrity Commission released details last week that Police officers "routinely planted evidence and verbaled statements to gain convictions." (Australian newsgroup, 2002)

   Ironically, Rogerson now admits that in one of his most famous cases, the Whiskey Au Go Go firebombing, one of the two men convicted, James Finch, was verbaled by detectives. (TIME. December 28, 1992 The Torrid Tale of a Rogue Cop)

From RFV

verbal

• n. verbal abuse, grief, nagging
• v. To attribute a damaging statement to a suspect
• v. To fabricate a confession

Cites please. Cynewulf 17:06, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

The noun is citable adequately for CFI in the plural, albeit with some difficulty because it is very much a minority use. Is that a plurale tantum, or is it worth the even harder task of looking for the singular amongst thousands of adjectives? I haven't yet found any evidence for the verbal verbals, for the same reason, though they seem likely. --Enginear 00:00, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Now also:

• n. A verbal statement, esp. evidence in court

Apart from the common senses all I've been able to find is verbals and verbaled as inflections of a verb meaning "to make a verbal commitment", and this only in one book (and a bit of usenet). I also see verbals as a noun "verbal commitments". Cynewulf 01:19, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

I found one citation for "to verbal", [1] (after the quote), but I'm not quite sure of the sense. At least some of the senses appear to be UK or Aus-specific police jargon.. sorry for the difficult job of weeding these out. Cynewulf 02:33, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

I have added two cites for verb To fabricate a confession. There is a definite Australian slant to them all. Still looking.--Dmol 15:03, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Here in Australia I hear verballing (a person) used quite often in a political setting - usually "You're verballing me", i.e. one side of politics attributing a damaging statement to the other side of politics in a misleading manner. -- 22:04, 1 October 2013 (UTC)

PS what is the meaning of the verb verbaled when used such as this. Has Washington Verbaled To OSU? There were several examples of it, all seemed to be school or school sports related. Are we missing a definition? --Dmol 17:20, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm fairly sure that means "to make a verbal commitment [to attend/play for]". See e.g. this mention. Oh, verballing gets a lot more hits than verbaling. Also verballed. Cynewulf 17:32, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

In the restaurant business (USA at least) to verbal (an order) is absolutely standard. When waitstaff is dropping order slips at the kitchen window or service bar, the bartender/expo/chef who wants to hear them will tell them to "verbal the orders". "never mind the slip, verbal it!" "micros kitchen printer isn't working, verbal your orders". Also used as noun, an order given that way (that may not be accounted for). But probably not in print; this usage is entirely, um, verbal. Robert Ullmann 17:35, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

"Verbal" is not the opposite of "written"

A contract written on paper is a verbal contract. It consists of words. That makes it verbal. A contract spoken out loud is also a verbal contract, consisting of words. The contract spoken out loud is an ORAL contract. The one on paper is NOT oral, but it IS verbal. ORAL agreement. I've never, ever, in my life, heard a Ph.D. candidate tell me that they were going to their Verbal Examinations. It's "Orals". Always. Because a "verbal exam" could just as well be on paper as spoken aloud. "Oral" and "written" are opposites. Both are subsets of "verbal". Not all communication is verbal. Waving good-bye is not verbal, because it's not a use of words.76.8.67.2 13:33, 7 September 2015 (UTC)Christopher L. Simpson

You're making the mistake of assuming that language always makes sense. We're a descriptive dictionary: we describe language as it's actually used, not the way you would like it to be. The truth is, if someone talks about a "verbal" contract, they usually mean an "oral" contract, and not explaining that would be depriving our readers of useful information. Chuck Entz (talk) 14:16, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

From RFC-sense

English.

The actual meaning is basically "to allege [the object] has made a verbal confession". I'm not sure how to indicate the grammatical construction, and I am not sure whether falsely alleging that a true culprit has confessed counts as verballing. The meaning given is "to induce into fabricating a confession", for which the object would normally be a fellow policeman, not the intended victim of the action. I don't believe 'verballing' encompasses beating a false confession out of someone. --RichardW57m (talk) 13:15, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

The notion of induction was added by @Equinox in Special:diff/30168383 under the comment 'subject/object confusion', which appears to be his utter confusion - the object (more precisely patient) is absent or well buried in the definition. A nice example, but probably not valid as a citation, is:

"Having been bitten once in my early career by a client who was ‘verballed’ by the police (i.e. words were put into his mouth which he hadn’t uttered but which miraculously appeared in their subsequent notes), I cultivated the habit of keeping a small notebook with me,..." at https://www.legalsecretaryjournal.com/a_lawyers_embarrasing_moments_2, an English example to balance the Australian usage. Unfortunately, it doesn't qualify as a quotation. --RichardW57m (talk) 12:29, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

The definition I changed didn't work as a transitive verb definition as it didn't indicate the object (was it the person, the confession, etc.): but yeah, I think I screwed it up. Feel free to fix. Equinox ◑ 23:39, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

RichardW57m (talk) 09:52, 20 November 2023 (UTC)