Appendix talk:Middle Korean h-final nouns

Interested

@Eirikr, you might be interested in this list, especially with regards to the potential place suffix */-k/ we were discussing in the other thread. What do you think?--Karaeng Matoaya (talk) 18:33, 5 November 2020 (UTC)

Comparison

@Karaeng Matoaya

1. 길 --> 긿 https://ko.dict.naver.com/#/entry/koko/080a458caf70463a9f6df9fede32c302 passed.

2. 그늘 --> 그늟 https://ko.dict.naver.com/#/search?query=%EA%B7%B8%EB%8A%9F passed.

3. 고을 --> 고읋 https://ko.dict.naver.com/#/entry/koko/36573462a38a4cfe9327cc7747cd0e02 passed.

4. 나라 --> 나랗 https://ko.dict.naver.com/#/entry/koko/ab7568dc4eeb40a5a8d04f3c1eed4119 passed.

5. 내 --> 냏 https://ko.dict.naver.com/#/entry/koko/e176f371ca3743338a15a70273f719d0 passed.

6. 뒤 --> 뒿 https://ko.dict.naver.com/#/entry/koko/a87be087147b4f4eb75d93689fdc45cd passed.

7. 들 --> 듫 https://ko.dict.naver.com/#/search?query=%EB%93%AB passed.

8. 메 --> 멯 https://ko.dict.naver.com/#/search?query=%EB%AC%97 passed.

9. 마을 --> 마읋 https://ko.dict.naver.com/#/search?range=all&query=%EE%95%A0%EE%B6%96 passed.

10. N/A

11. 바다 --> 바닿 https://ko.dict.naver.com/#/entry/koko/ffd4564ce3004d6ebb6f08b0c8452070 passed. * Comment: There are two etymologies for 바다. 바닿, 바ᄅᆞᆯ

12. 벼랑 --> 볋 https://ko.dict.naver.com/#/entry/koko/44468c0d1c43475f97512fe5cd2a897b passed. * Comment: There are three etymologies for 벼랑: 볋, 비레, 비ᇰ애

13. 뜰 --> 뜷 https://ko.dict.naver.com/#/search?range=all&query=%EE%9B%9F failed. * Comment: It's ᄠᅳᆶ, not 뜷. Please change this.

14. 서울 --> 셔욿 https://ko.dict.naver.com/#/entry/koko/7c3293a14401442e937aef7f382ef6e2 failed. * Comment: The first attested format is 셔ᄫᅳᆯ.

15. 시골 --> 스굻 https://ko.dict.naver.com/#/entry/koko/da0cc419cac84fc693326ff52fb0c908 failed. * Comment: The first attested format is 스ᄀᆞᄫᆞᆯ. Please change this.

16. 땅 --> ᄯᅡᇂ https://ko.dict.naver.com/#/entry/koko/95e5312da34a453b8bcdba70a29e7840 passed.

17. 안 --> 않 https://ko.dict.naver.com/#/entry/koko/6f8229caecf94607b32b0e940e229f27 passed.

18. 언덕 --> 얺 https://ko.dict.naver.com/#/entry/koko/0637641df0654b8ebfa7a2f98d3e2af9 failed. However, when you search 얺, https://ko.dict.naver.com/#/entry/koko/f56106ed86054e5391a89f96c27c233e -h 종성체언 appears, so it implies -h rule applied to derived term. But when used in isolated form, -h is not attested. https://ko.dict.naver.com/#/entry/koko/f0b430e32aa348239bc3ab5a89b1137c

19. 움 --> 우ᇡ https://ko.dict.naver.com/#/entry/koko/793d4b718f0f487f81a1b336d9111d6b passed.

20. 위 --> 웋 https://ko.dict.naver.com/#/entry/koko/cff7066b60ef4721a90ed1b3b6e086b4 passed.

21. N/A

22. 터 --> 텋 https://ko.dict.naver.com/#/entry/koko/9daa9d593f664d19941cbd61826e58f3 passed.

23. 하늘 --> 하늟 https://ko.dict.naver.com/#/entry/koko/53c16c2b001d4beb9fe9c67ccd8d9064 passed.

24. 하나 --> ᄒᆞ낳 https://ko.dict.naver.com/#/entry/koko/d61828a656754660b719720d39082758 passed.

25. 둘 --> 둟 https://ko.dict.naver.com/#/entry/koko/b51c1948a28b45478a379e376d4ee0fb passed.

26. 셋 --> 셓 https://ko.dict.naver.com/#/entry/koko/b51c1948a28b45478a379e376d4ee0fb passed.

27. 넷 --> 넿 https://ko.dict.naver.com/#/entry/koko/9c09bd4833084882815a0d3d59e5f621 passed.

28. 다섯, 여섯, 일곱, 여덟, 아홉(5,6,7,8,9 respectively) are not attested as -h 종성체언. So you are correct. passed.

https://ko.dict.naver.com/#/entry/koko/e5be86a324294d7d94c5ec3ae7ca09b7 https://ko.dict.naver.com/#/entry/koko/8e1ac5a62aac4f62b7dd280da24e37f7 https://ko.dict.naver.com/#/entry/koko/fed5a632e7d9483bb231e012e9500c65 https://ko.dict.naver.com/#/entry/koko/25e66a8c3c944b188d6785fa6a3bb1e3 https://ko.dict.naver.com/#/entry/koko/f97fd98b9721467fb5787b8cdffcbf82

29. 열 --> 엻 https://ko.dict.naver.com/#/entry/koko/960b73866f884af080de498795b4a3a7 passed.

30. 스물 --> 스믏 https://ko.dict.naver.com/#/entry/koko/9e2086efeca9443f9e475675340d7fba passed.

31. 여럿 --> 여렇 https://ko.dict.naver.com/#/entry/koko/2a65067a25dd4c80a90081793412784f passed.

32. 칼 --> 캃 https://ko.dict.naver.com/#/entry/koko/e151ed777a974adbb612c2f610fc60d0 passed. * Comment: There is other meaning for 칼(knife): Cangue https://ko.dict.naver.com/#/entry/koko/5fa7b56f03254e50b930765efa99b0eb This meaning is also attested to have -h 종성체언. Please add this definition in the table.

33. 겨울 --> 겨욿 https://ko.dict.naver.com/#/entry/koko/1fb2ab5f55c44e1885af6d9e17b59b02 passed.

34. 코 --> 곻 https://ko.dict.naver.com/#/entry/koko/72ebda2f538140e5878ce0ccaf657d2a passed.

35. 고 --> 곻 https://ko.dict.naver.com/#/entry/koko/f65688c38bac415485d66ad56f6e8ac0 passed.

36. 그루 --> 그릏 https://ko.dict.naver.com/#/entry/koko/e6c81735e3274c47acb0e77c2b3b3717 passed.

37. 끈 --> 긶 https://ko.dict.naver.com/#/entry/koko/438b2e4ac9184d508ecdf2d2af78db73 passed.

38. 가을 --> ᄀᆞᅀᆞᆶ https://ko.dict.naver.com/#/entry/koko/6b0bf1f750084d1cb02cce460aa5c884 passed.

39. 나이 --> 낳 https://ko.dict.naver.com/#/entry/koko/9dcae12524b8498fbb941b014d2ecfaf passed.

40. N/A * Comment: I remember you mentioning this word in the edit summary, so I'll put the link. https://ko.dict.naver.com/#/entry/koko/1e871b084ef64ef9a25187c21a0d5e49 passed. However, it is a dead word.

41. 이마 --> 니맣 https://ko.dict.naver.com/#/entry/koko/44833be698e048b7a87799814caae6ca passed.

42. 임자 --> 님잫 https://ko.dict.naver.com/#/entry/koko/5d67e8dad16043e1a5a97ac5064f94b5 passed.

43. 나물 --> ᄂᆞᄆᆞᆶ https://ko.dict.naver.com/#/entry/koko/1843810469cb4bc0bc7a440ee577445b passed.

44. 날 --> ᄂᆞᆶ https://ko.dict.naver.com/#/entry/koko/7d0fe4beaa45451a9bf31d617e34c13e passed. Also, homonym 날(string) is also attested as ᄂᆞᆶ, so please add this definition also. However, homonym 날(day, 日) is not attested to have -ㅎ 종성체언. https://ko.dict.naver.com/#/entry/koko/7aaa1c212ab5452aac1051ae0fe8ee43

45. 돌 --> 돓 https://ko.dict.naver.com/#/entry/koko/e7672697441840f495798718e23e42e0 passed.

46. 도래 --> 드릏 https://ko.dict.naver.com/#/entry/koko/18b0d4f199b84e7090dd9463e77a207a failed. 도래 is a combined word of 돌 + -개 and it became 돌애. 드릏 is a synonym. Please change this.

47. -들 --> -ᄃᆞᆶ https://ko.dict.naver.com/#/entry/koko/51cfe4699fb64c2bb9b054ca459bb807 passed.

48. 말뚝 --> 맗 https://ko.dict.naver.com/#/entry/koko/975aba692b3640e196ae7fce7e50c3ec passed.

49. 마 --> 맣 https://ko.dict.naver.com/#/entry/koko/3ef8c759862c40b4800ef87a387ff2b6 passed.

50. 머리 --> 머맇 https://ko.dict.naver.com/#/entry/koko/a90afd48126045a09bc9b6c634b7ff54 failed. However, if you search on naver, one internet article claims that 머리 came from 머맇 without showing the actual historical usage example. http://www.entermedia.co.kr/news/articleView.html?idxno=5941 Also in google: https://books.google.co.kr/books?id=oxNkDwAAQBAJ&pg=PT25&dq=%EB%A8%B8%EB%A6%AC+%EC%96%B4%EC%9B%90+%EB%A8%B8%EB%A7%87&hl=ko&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj50eicwontAhUME6YKHWarC7EQ6AEwAHoECAIQAg#v=onepage&q=%EB%A8%B8%EB%A6%AC%20%EC%96%B4%EC%9B%90%20%EB%A8%B8%EB%A7%87&f=false It appears that they are both written by the same author named 한성우 in a book titled "우리 음식의 언어", but I'm suspicious about whether it's an attested form or proto-language.

51. 모양 --> 모얗 https://ko.dict.naver.com/#/entry/koko/4623ab31343c4c47be495042c11de680 passed.

52. 모 --> 뫃 https://ko.dict.naver.com/#/entry/koko/efec1ae56acc4a54827270bc7b92c619 passed.

53. 바 --> 밯 https://ko.dict.naver.com/#/entry/koko/84fce1816d994279b311fe1e7398b254 failed. Unattested. Please put proto-language mark(*) next to 밯. If you search 밯 in naver dictionary, old form of 바다 appears. Also in google: https://www.google.com/search?newwindow=1&biw=1707&bih=865&tbm=bks&ei=DryzX8C_DY-B-Qbcz7G4DQ&q=%EB%B0%94+%EC%96%B4%EC%9B%90+%EB%B0%AF&oq=%EB%B0%94+%EC%96%B4%EC%9B%90+%EB%B0%AF&gs_l=psy-ab.3...3671.5250.0.5370.13.11.0.0.0.0.133.1239.1j10.11.0....0...1.1j4.64.psy-ab..6.2.224...0.0.UG6z_RceXvY can't find it.

54. 팔 --> ᄇᆞᆶ https://ko.dict.naver.com/#/entry/koko/f8c5ae0d25ad45639b223fdb56c88d49 passed.

55. N/A

56. 수 --> 숳 https://ko.dict.naver.com/#/entry/koko/e4e8c9400a66438abf5a3e88d3f00ceb passed.

57. 살 --> ᄉᆞᆶ https://ko.dict.naver.com/#/entry/koko/a61396cffee547d5b22ebd9f4776ef98 passed.

58. 알 --> 앓 https://ko.dict.naver.com/#/entry/koko/e55b600d27804d3a8c51dd0e61a2dad6 passed.

59. 암 --> 아ᇡ https://ko.dict.naver.com/#/entry/koko/5da3c19cfb2246aaacdf62a76d44b527 passed.

60. N/A

61. 올해 --> 옳 https://ko.dict.naver.com/#/entry/koko/d8333c3713a441e39bf2e6cac3b93a99 passed.

62. 울타리 --> 욿 https://ko.dict.naver.com/#/entry/koko/65e0c37706e348aa8b974ddce2628ded passed.

63. 이 --> 잏 https://ko.dict.naver.com/#/entry/koko/40d48a164d054331a2bcb059a2d96d1c failed.

Conclusion: Please put proto-language(*) mark next to 바 and 이. I'm very suspicious about these two words. Also please correct the errors that I have marked as failed. B2V22BHARAT (talk) 12:11, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

Any reply about 바 (ba) and 이 (i)? Let me quote, from https://ko.dict.naver.com/#/entry/koko/da0cc419cac84fc693326ff52fb0c908, 스ᄀᆞᄫᆞᆯ이 본래 ㅎ 종성체언일 가능성도 생각할 수 있으나, '스굻'의 예가 단 한 번 나타날 뿐이라서 확실하지는 않다. (seugᆞᄫᆞri bollae h jongseongcheeonil ganeungseongdo saenggakhal su isseuna, seugul ui yega dan han beon natanal ppuniraseo hwaksilhajineun anta.) Even the 시골 (sigol), which has actual attested -h final noun of 시굻 (sigul) is explained suspiciously because this form does not appear frequently(only once). Then it is needless to say about 바 (ba) and 이 (i) which do not have attested -h final noun forms at all. You should definitely put * mark next to these two words. B2V22BHARAT (talk) 16:38, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

Oh it seems that you have changed your past edit. Thanks! :) B2V22BHARAT (talk) 16:40, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

You haven't changed the capital of South Korea, Seoul and 시골 (sigol) to 셔ᄫᅳᆯ (syeoᄫeul) and 스ᄀᆞᄫᆞᆯ (seugᆞᄫᆞl). Please change these. B2V22BHARAT (talk) 04:08, 18 November 2020 (UTC)

Also, please add the other meaning for 칼 (kal, “Cangue”) because this definition is also attested to have -h final noun form. https://ko.dict.naver.com/#/entry/koko/5fa7b56f03254e50b930765efa99b0eb And this applies to 날 (nal, “twine”) also. https://ko.dict.naver.com/#/entry/koko/5e08a32409f647d6a1cb300820e04ef9 B2V22BHARAT (talk) 04:14, 18 November 2020 (UTC)

@B2V22BHARAT, you seem to be under the misconception that I have made this list by my own. I have not; I am reporting what the three academic sources have to say and I am not engaging in original research over Naver. I cannot change anything here to whatever fits your fancy because they were not reported by the given sources; to do so would be deceptive. 술이부작 (述而不作, suribujak).--Karaeng Matoaya (talk) 08:32, 18 November 2020 (UTC)

Haha. Then why did you change 뜰 from 뜷 to ᄠᅳᆶ? B2V22BHARAT (talk) 09:13, 18 November 2020 (UTC)