Category talk:West Frisian language

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Attention! Frisian is considered a language family instead of a language. Every entry in here needs to sorted into West Frisian, Sater Frisian, and North Frisian. If you have knowledge of Frisian, please consider helping Wiktionary with this sorting process.

I'll say. And you're lucky enough to have a fair number of entries, huh? I'll do my best to get things started. But please don't give me a hard time when I screw up the formatting and naming conventions, OK?

Thanks much (Tige tank! Fr..., er, West Frisian smile.gif)

Winter 09:08, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Please, be bold! WT:STATS say that thare are 311 entries with level-two ==Frisian== that need to be processed. And after you finish sorting these out, please change in {{fy}} from "Frisian" to "West Frisian", to match ISO 639-3 fry in {{lang:fry}} --Ivan Štambuk 10:39, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Houston, I mean Hrvatske (Ivan), we have a problem. iso639-3 now conflicts with the Localisation Language Codes RFCs

This is a problem because the mediawiki software and central configuration all uses RFCs. The InterWiki templates use RFC. Some of the two types of templates call each other from time to time.

BTW, I just found out tonight when I started poking around that the Seelterfräiske rolled out their own wikipedia on 12 January! Well, the West Frisian site is "fy," and their site is "stq."

So, well, here's a bit of fun.

{{interwiktionary|code=stq}}</nowiki> creates this flag.

By contrast, {{interwiktionary|code=fy}}</nowiki> creates this flag:

(OK, that's not a problem because there's no stq wiktionary yet. And they did fix this problem for the InterWiki template. But still, made me giggle.)

Beyond that, I don't have authorisation to fix some of the internal template clashes. So seems this will have to be some sort of coordinated effort, well maybe just a consensus, if we want to reassign or retire the omnibus Frisian category and make sure new stuff doesn't show up there.

The RFCs are a mess; we try to push them into using the actual standards. In the meantime, stq isn't a problem, we probably have the template wrong at the moment ... no, should be okay ... what is going on? The templates are correct! Robert Ullmann 13:53, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
Ah, the templates are correct, the problem is the displayed name defaults to {PAGENAME}. And the pagename here is "Frisian language"! See at West Frisian Robert Ullmann 13:58, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
At least in this case we have (will have) consistency ;-) Now if we could explain the the Nynorsk people that no=nor=Norwegian, and nn=nno=Nynorsk, we'd be on a roll ... Robert Ullmann 14:03, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Hey, as long as they don't try to make me eat Lutefisk... Crow's OK, but Lutefisk? I can't go there.
Winter 14:19, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

But now, the good news[edit]

Some of the proper names and stuff I have no idea. But I haven't seen any goofy words with 14 U's in a row, or other ridiculous combinations of letters like Mååget, so it looks like your only significant infestation is West Frisian. (Yeah, like I can talk? Talk about a ridiculous combination of letters, take tsiis -- which means, and is pronounced, "cheese.")

Winter 13:36, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

A modest proposal[edit]

To Ivan, the clueful:[edit]

Just to make sure we're on the same page, I don't see anything wrong with having an additional omnibus category for the Frisian languages in addition to the subcategories, do you?

Based on the entries to date, I also think it would be fine just to keep using fy, with it defaulting to West Frisian as well as Frisian. I've dinked the fy-* templates (the one's I've noticed anyway) to assign to both Frisian and new West Frisian categories. For the entries I've edited that have hard-coded categories within the entries, I've done the same thing. So they're all members of both "Frisian <part of speech>" and "West Frisian <part of speech>."

I propose simply creating new frr-* and stq-* just like the fy-* ones. Those would assign their entries to Noard and Sater, and also to generic Frisian. If somebody doesn't know, and just uses the old fy template, they're almost certainly entering West Frisian anyway. West Frisian is spoken by 350.000 people. I could be wrong, but I don't foresee any flurry of activity entering a huge clump of words for languages spoken by some 2.500 people (stq) and 10 or 20 thousand (frr--I think that's the code). And those few who would do such a thing would know where we got the stuff (likely another wiki), and (hopefully) be aware of the issue. Any few stragglers can be recast in due course.

Besides, if we just let fy slide gracefully, almost unnoticed, into its new role (which I think I understand to be the druthers of Robert and the rest of the world?) we don't have to do any work. No, that's not the reason. It is logical and potentially useful to group them, even if somebody out there might think it ever so slightly artificial. (I don't.)

If that makes sense, I'll leave it to your greater mind to decide whether the mere name of the omnibus category should be pluralised or changed or in any way.

I think it would be good to group West/North/Saterland into Category:Frisian languages. But I'm don't comprehend why are you assigning to both POS of "Frisian" and "West Frisian". If there's no level-2 header "Frisian", there shouldn't be category "Frisian POS" in the first place. --Ivan Štambuk 20:31, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
Looks like I wasn't clear. I believe we should keep said level-2 header Frisian. Winter 15:17, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
We can't do that, there's no "Frisian language"; there are 3 different languages (they're not even mutually intelligible) and you yourself have been changing from ==Frisian== to ==West Frisian== whilst persisting on dual POS categorization. That can't work. --Ivan Štambuk 15:42, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
Well, I'm not really sure what you want. So combining that with what I just put in the last section, I think somebody who knows more than I do about this should take over. Take care. Winter 17:07, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

And Robert, my favourite coding genius:[edit]

Are there inflection codes for stq and frr like fy? With the fy parameter defaulting to West Frisian for anything the template(s) actually do, if anything? I don't have access to change that, so I didn't bother to look. ;-) There might be other esoteric templates out there, too, like translations to be checked maybe. If so, same deal.

But are you already 10 steps ahead of me? Like, that's long-since taken care of, or there's a far superior method already in place? :-D

Thanks, both of you, for taking an interest and letting me be a pest. Winter 22:08, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Never mind on this! Thanks for your help. Winterxx

I give up[edit]

Uncle! I'll go back to the other site, and leave this to those with more knowledge than I have. I'm just trying to help, and I certainly don't want to make things worse!

Winter 17:05, 27 March 2008 (UTC)